The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
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13-08-2015, 11:05 AM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(12-08-2015 06:40 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  What an excellent example you cited, in Dr. Francis S. Collins!
[Image: The_Language_of_God-Collins.jpg]

INdeed. Now you are shooting into your own foot , aka world view.

show me a language like the one stored in DNA, that has a natural , aka non intelligent origin. Rolleyes

"The inadequacy of proposed materialistic causes forms only a part of the basis of the argument for intelligent design. We also know from broad and repeated experience that intelligent agents can and do produce information rich systems: we have positive experience based knowledge of a cause that is sufficient to generate new specified information, namely, intelligence. We are not ignorant of how information arises. According to information theorist Henry Quastler...'the creation of new information is habitually associated with conscious activity' "....I described indirect evidence which is a recognized form of proof for a causal agent...if you have no theory which explains the formation of complex specified information or functional operational activity without an intelligent origin then you cannot dismiss a known cause for such phenomena. Seen or unseen such phenomena require a sufficient cause.

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All historical, observational, testable and repeatable examples PROVE information and operational functionality come from intelligent sources.

But i think i can't expect too much from someone that resorts to name calling as as substitution for a rational discourse.

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13-08-2015, 11:12 AM (This post was last modified: 13-08-2015 11:44 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(13-08-2015 11:05 AM)Godexists Wrote:  
(12-08-2015 06:40 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  What an excellent example you cited, in Dr. Francis S. Collins!
[Image: The_Language_of_God-Collins.jpg]

INdeed. Now you are shooting into your own foot , aka world view.

show me a language like the one stored in DNA, that has a natural , aka non intelligent origin. Rolleyes

"The inadequacy of proposed materialistic causes forms only a part of the basis of the argument for intelligent design. We also know from broad and repeated experience that intelligent agents can and do produce information rich systems: we have positive experience based knowledge of a cause that is sufficient to generate new specified information, namely, intelligence. We are not ignorant of how information arises. According to information theorist Henry Quastler...'the creation of new information is habitually associated with conscious activity' "....I described indirect evidence which is a recognized form of proof for a causal agent...if you have no theory which explains the formation of complex specified information or functional operational activity without an intelligent origin then you cannot dismiss a known cause for such phenomena. Seen or unseen such phenomena require a sufficient cause.

[Image: emilys11.jpg]

All historical, observational, testable and repeatable examples PROVE information and operational functionality come from intelligent sources.

But i think i can't expect too much from someone that resorts to name calling as as substitution for a rational discourse.

Drinking Beverage

In your last idiotic thread I gave you an example that refuted "All historical, observational, testable and repeatable examples PROVE information and operational functionality come from intelligent sources."

Since you are an intellectually dishonest troll, you chose to ignore it.

Go away you lying troll. You are completely unable to even begin to discuss this topic. All you can do is copy-paste crap for that stupid web-site. DNA is not a "language". It only has 4 (or 5) base pairs. There are perfectly plausible explanations for how what we observe evolved. All you idiotic assertions are simply evidence of your complete ignorance of Chemistry and Physics.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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13-08-2015, 11:37 AM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(13-08-2015 11:05 AM)Godexists Wrote:  All historical, observational, testable and repeatable examples PROVE information and operational functionality come from intelligent sources.

Well no. Life sucks, and is super flawed. Sure you can say that evolution, the big bang, abiogenesis, gravity, supernovas, etc, can not disprove god. However to claim a lack of understanding=goddess means nothing.

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13-08-2015, 11:57 AM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(13-08-2015 11:05 AM)Godexists Wrote:  show me a language like the one stored in DNA, that has a natural , aka non intelligent origin. Rolleyes

Well, DNA, for one.

Jokes aside, this is an extremely silly argument. DNA is not a language. It's just a long string of chemicals. To say that DNA cannot have a natural origin just because it is very long and intricate is to betray a complete lack of understanding of chemistry.

In Conway's Game of Life, there is a construct known as a "glider gun" which forms the basic building blocks for almost every more-complex structure. There is nothing about glider guns that makes them at all special or which requires the intervention of an intelligent agency to create them; run a completely randomized game and, even with fairly small game sizes, they will turn up all over the place. Increase the size of the game, and you will see them start to interact with each other, creating more and more complex structures.

DNA is the same thing, but replacing glider guns with chemicals. No intelligence needed. It's a natural consequence of the way chemicals interact with one another, not anything supernatural. It just requires the right conditions to crop up. The larger the sample size, the more likely that it will appear.

"The whole universe" is one hell of a large sample size.

(13-08-2015 11:05 AM)Godexists Wrote:  "The inadequacy of proposed materialistic causes

Again, you attempt to sweep opposing arguments under the rug rather than answer them.

(13-08-2015 11:05 AM)Godexists Wrote:  We also know from broad and repeated experience that intelligent agents can and do produce information rich systems

You have no functional definition of "information", let alone "specified information". Your entire argument collapses in on itself as a result.

Meanwhile, actual science does have a functional definition of "information". In fact, there are entire fields of scientific research dedicated to studying it. Not one of them has ever raised an actual objection to the concept of DNA forming without intelligent intervention.

Do you know why? Because information does not require intelligence to come into being.

(13-08-2015 11:05 AM)Godexists Wrote:  According to information theorist Henry Quastler...'the creation of new information is habitually associated with conscious activity'

Henry Quastler never said that. Literally the only references to it anywhere are from people like yourself - people who might, in fact, even be you - claiming that he did.

Which is unsurprising, since Henry Quastler was an actual information theorist. One of the first and most important, in fact. And he argued for exactly the opposite of that. You might want to look up Dancoff's law of information, which he helped to formulate, and which specifically states that information not only can and does arise when simple copying mistakes are made in chemical replications, but actually arises more quickly as a result.

Do your homework before posting this nonsense.

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13-08-2015, 11:58 AM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(13-08-2015 11:05 AM)Godexists Wrote:  
(12-08-2015 06:40 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  What an excellent example you cited, in Dr. Francis S. Collins!
[Image: The_Language_of_God-Collins.jpg]

INdeed. Now you are shooting into your own foot , aka world view.

show me a language like the one stored in DNA, that has a natural , aka non intelligent origin. Rolleyes

"The inadequacy of proposed materialistic causes forms only a part of the basis of the argument for intelligent design. We also know from broad and repeated experience that intelligent agents can and do produce information rich systems: we have positive experience based knowledge of a cause that is sufficient to generate new specified information, namely, intelligence. We are not ignorant of how information arises. According to information theorist Henry Quastler...'the creation of new information is habitually associated with conscious activity' "....I described indirect evidence which is a recognized form of proof for a causal agent...if you have no theory which explains the formation of complex specified information or functional operational activity without an intelligent origin then you cannot dismiss a known cause for such phenomena. Seen or unseen such phenomena require a sufficient cause.

[Image: emilys11.jpg]

All historical, observational, testable and repeatable examples PROVE information and operational functionality come from intelligent sources.

But i think i can't expect too much from someone that resorts to name calling as as substitution for a rational discourse.

Drinking Beverage

DNA is not a language in the sense you are trying to assert. It is chemistry.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-08-2015, 12:12 PM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
At work.

Can the OP give any examples of languages that only use four letters?
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13-08-2015, 12:31 PM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(13-08-2015 11:57 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(13-08-2015 11:05 AM)Godexists Wrote:  According to information theorist Henry Quastler...'the creation of new information is habitually associated with conscious activity'

Henry Quastler never said that. Literally the only references to it anywhere are from people like yourself - people who might, in fact, even be you - claiming that he did.

Which is unsurprising, since Henry Quastler was an actual information theorist. One of the first and most important, in fact. And he argued for exactly the opposite of that. You might want to look up Dancoff's law of information, which he helped to formulate, and which specifically states that information not only can and does arise when simple copying mistakes are made in chemical replications, but actually arises more quickly as a result.

Do your homework before posting this nonsense.

See, for reasonable and honest people, that would be good advice, but gems like our OP can't be bothered with that inconvenient shit - they've got Lies for Jesus™ to tell, and that's way more important than niggling little details like, er, reality.

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13-08-2015, 01:15 PM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(13-08-2015 12:12 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  At work.

Can the OP give any examples of languages that only use four letters?

To nitpick -- there are no human languages that I know of that do this, but it's not impossible. Computers manage to store information of all kinds (including texts in human languages) using only two characters: 1 and 0.

Of course, for a human to make sense of that information, it has to be mapped back into a human language, and all of those use more than four letters/characters, so maybe my example doesn't count.
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13-08-2015, 01:20 PM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
At work.

Sorry, no real time for better explain.

Computer code is refered to just that 'code' with 'programming languages' being used to create things which are then rendered down into binary?
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13-08-2015, 03:30 PM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
For the OP


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