The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
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15-08-2015, 07:17 PM (This post was last modified: 15-08-2015 07:50 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(15-08-2015 06:57 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(15-08-2015 06:26 PM)Godexists Wrote:  Are you seriously saying you are unable to look for yourself into the evidence, and make up your mind ?

Are you so unfathomably ignorant that you think that your opinion as an uninformed layman is worth more than that of the experts who have spent decades studying the subject?

(15-08-2015 06:26 PM)Godexists Wrote:  Btw. i am collecting what mainstream scientific papers say about the enzymes, organelles etc. in the cell, that are indispensable, that is, they cannot be reduced.

That is not what those words mean.

There are no scientific papers that say organelles "cannot be *reduced*". There is no way to attempt to *reduce* one, and test anything about that. Clearly your knowledge of Cell Biology is non-existent. "Reducing organelles" is as meaningless as "fattening ribosomes". Weeping

In fact, in this thread, (ignored by you ... you lying SOB), we presented evidence that science has produced more efficient ribosomes than your fool designer Jebus, did. Too bad. So sad.

You ignoramus.

And lastly, it's a fools errand to try to show that ID must work the way it's (supposedly) designed. A really omnipotent god would have the ability to make life happen, no matter whether the things that make it work were "fine tuned" or not. In fact what we observe, is exactly what one would expect if things were NOT fine tuned, and had evolved with all the imperfections and errors and malfunctions we observe.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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16-08-2015, 02:14 AM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
The fundamental flaw in the irreducible complexity argument that is completely ignored by people like Godsexist is that systems change over time.

This means that everything can become dependent on one part of a system.

For example, an invasive weed or animal can be introduced to an ecosystem and eventually other animals adapt to it to the point where if you take out that weed then the ecosystem collapses.

It's really very simple but you won't ever see Godsexist even mention this concept because he's only concerned with convincing people of his superstition.
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16-08-2015, 02:38 AM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(16-08-2015 02:14 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  The fundamental flaw in the irreducible complexity argument that is completely ignored by people like Godsexist is that systems change over time.

This means that everything can become dependent on one part of a system.

For example, an invasive weed or animal can be introduced to an ecosystem and eventually other animals adapt to it to the point where if you take out that weed then the ecosystem collapses.

Like a disease?

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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16-08-2015, 02:49 AM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(16-08-2015 02:38 AM)Banjo Wrote:  
(16-08-2015 02:14 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  The fundamental flaw in the irreducible complexity argument that is completely ignored by people like Godsexist is that systems change over time.

This means that everything can become dependent on one part of a system.

For example, an invasive weed or animal can be introduced to an ecosystem and eventually other animals adapt to it to the point where if you take out that weed then the ecosystem collapses.

Like a disease?

Or parasites. There are some medical problems today that are believed to arise from the lack of parasites in our daily lives which our immune systems have adapted to.

Parasitic Worms Wiggle into Modern Medicine
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16-08-2015, 03:12 AM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
Proponents of irreducible complexity only apply their argument to naturally evolving systems, but there is no reason why they shouldn't also argue the same for man made structures.

You can easily look at any bridge and find a single component which if you removed would cause the bridge to collapse. We all know that scaffolding was used when building the bridge which was then removed when the bridge was able to support itself. No one in their right mind would argue that because of this a bridge had to be created in an instance by magic.

So why are they arguing this for naturally evolved cells?

Godexists' argument relies on special pleading by only applying it to naturally evolved cells. There is no valid reason to do this, except to do otherwise demonstrates clearly why the argument is flawed.
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16-08-2015, 03:28 AM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(16-08-2015 02:49 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(16-08-2015 02:38 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Like a disease?

Or parasites. There are some medical problems today that are believed to arise from the lack of parasites in our daily lives which our immune systems have adapted to.

Parasitic Worms Wiggle into Modern Medicine

Cheers. Thumbsup

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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16-08-2015, 03:33 AM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(16-08-2015 03:12 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  Proponents of irreducible complexity only apply their argument to naturally evolving systems, but there is no reason why they shouldn't also argue the same for man made structures.

You can easily look at any bridge and find a single component which if you removed would cause the bridge to collapse. We all know that scaffolding was used when building the bridge which was then removed when the bridge was able to support itself. No one in their right mind would argue that because of this a bridge had to be created in an instance by magic.

So why are they arguing this for naturally evolved cells?

Godexists' argument relies on special pleading by only applying it to naturally evolved cells. There is no valid reason to do this, except to do otherwise demonstrates clearly why the argument is flawed.








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16-08-2015, 06:32 AM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(16-08-2015 02:14 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  The fundamental flaw in the irreducible complexity argument that is completely ignored by people like Godsexist is that systems change over time.

This means that everything can become dependent on one part of a system.

For example, an invasive weed or animal can be introduced to an ecosystem and eventually other animals adapt to it to the point where if you take out that weed then the ecosystem collapses.

It's really very simple but you won't ever see Godsexist even mention this concept because he's only concerned with convincing people of his superstition.

A irreducible complex system can indeed change over time. Thats called micro evolution. We know for example that ATP synthase has many variants, that change by microevolutionary mechanisms. So one, micro evolution, adds to the other. The fundamental structure is irreducible, but small changes for adaptation are normal, and based on the inbuilt mechanism that permits such changes. They make part of the overall design .

http://reasonandscience.heavenforum.org/...thase#3904
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16-08-2015, 06:34 AM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(16-08-2015 03:33 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  


boring. The old tiresome thousand of times refuted pseudo arguments.

http://reasonandscience.heavenforum.org/...unked#2941
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16-08-2015, 06:41 AM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(16-08-2015 06:34 AM)Godexists Wrote:  boring. The old tiresome thousand of times refuted pseudo arguments.

How quaint, you perfectly described your own indefensible bullshit. Drinking Beverage

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