The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
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11-08-2015, 12:00 AM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(10-08-2015 11:25 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  Ok. So the aldol condensation proves what? I am co author of two papers that deal with asymmetric aldol additions. So therefore god? Your argument is a non-sequitur. These things that we do understand and that occur naturally have what supernatural implications? None. You said a crapload but I really doubt you know what this crap means (or doesn't mean). Do you really think that every time we discover something new or don't have a good understanding that this argument is anything other than crap? Even if we understand everything about the body except for 1 thing, idiots like you are going to claim IC. It's a dumb joke and you fell for it. If you want to see Behe in all his glory, look at [img]Kitzmiller v. Dover[/img] and see him in action. You seem to have this impression that don't underatand means won't understand. And as for Behe,

[Image: irreducible+stupidity.jpg.cf.jpg]

Author of two published papers and can't fix his own quote tags Weeping

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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11-08-2015, 12:07 AM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
The Kitzmiller v. Dover trial.




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11-08-2015, 12:17 AM (This post was last modified: 11-08-2015 08:20 AM by Mathilda.)
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
The global economy is irreducibly complex and was intelligently designed by God. It did not evolve! The system cannot function if you take out the banks! Therefore God! Tell me how you can have a global economy that transports goods across the world, feeds billions of people and makes new inventions every day without banks!

If you took billions of people, put them in a massive bag and shook them up for millions of years and then opened the bag, would you expect to find a bank inside? The chance of an international bank forming from random chance is impossible.
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11-08-2015, 12:19 AM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(11-08-2015 12:17 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  The global economy is irreducibly complex and was intelligently designed by God. It was not created and did not evolve! The system cannot function if you take out the banks! Therefore God! Tell me how you can have a global economy that transports goods across the world, feeds billions of people and makes new inventions every day without banks!

If you took billions of people, put them in a massive bag and shook them up for millions of years and then opened the bag, would you expect to find a bank inside? The chance of an international bank forming from random chance is impossible.

Argumentum ad Bankulum? Consider


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11-08-2015, 12:24 AM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(10-08-2015 08:06 PM)Godexists Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 06:43 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  For those who actually might be curious about the evolution of ATP, it's well-understood, the hand-waving of the God's Army Wizards of Illusion-Magic's protestations aside. There are many university-level articles you can read, from publishing academics, or you can look into the National Institutes of Health's publications or the primary literature in scientific journals on the subject:

yep......Thumbsup

http://reasonandscience.heavenforum.org/...-life#3361

The improbability of prebiotic nucleic acid synthesis.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6462692

Many accounts of the origin of life assume that the spontaneous synthesis of a self-replicating nucleic acid could take place readily. Serious chemical obstacles exist, however, which make such an event extremely improbable. Prebiotic syntheses of adenine from HCN, of D,L-ribose from adenosine, and of adenosine from adenine and D-ribose have in fact been demonstrated. However these procedures use pure starting materials, afford poor yields, and are run under conditions which are not compatible with one another. Any nucleic acid components which were formed on the primitive earth would tend to hydrolyze by a number of pathways. Their polymerization would be inhibited by the presence of vast numbers of related substances which would react preferentially with them. It appears likely that nucleic acids were not formed by prebiotic routes

but i did not mention ribose, also essential for ATP synthesis.

The proposed prebiotic pathway leading to this sugar, the formose reaction, is especially problematic.

prebiotically plausible sequences of steps to the precursors of this ribose derivative and from it to the standard nucleotides are not obvious. 17

Formose reaction

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formose_reaction

The formose reaction is of great importance to the question of the origin of life as it explains part of the path from simple formaldehyde to complex sugars like ribose and from there to RNA. In one experiment simulating early Earth conditions, pentoses formed from mixtures of formaldehyde, glyceraldehyde, and borate minerals such as colemanite (Ca2B6O115H2O) or kernite (Na2B4O7).[4] Both formaldehyde and glycolaldehyde have been observed spectroscopically in outer space, making the formose reaction of particular interest to the field of astrobiology.

Aldol reaction

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldol_reaction

The aldol reaction is a means of forming carbon–carbon bonds in organic chemistry.Discovered independently by Charles-Adolphe Wurtz and Alexander Borodin in 1872, the reaction combines two carbonyl compounds (the original experiments used aldehydes) to form a new β-hydroxy carbonyl compound. These products are known as aldols, from the aldehyde + alcohol, a structural motif seen in many of the products. Aldol structural units are found in many important molecules, whether naturally occurring or synthetic. For example, the aldol reaction has been used in the large-scale production of the commodity chemical pentaerythritol[11] and the synthesis of the heart disease drug Lipitor (atorvastatin, calcium salt).

and aldose-ketose isomerizations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobry_de_B...sformation

In carbohydrate chemistry, the Lobry de Bruyn–van Ekenstein transformation also known as the Lobry de Bruyn–Alberda–van Ekenstein transformation is the base or acid catalyzed transformation of an aldose into the ketose isomer or vice versa, with a tautomeric enediol as reaction intermediate. Ketoses may be transformed into 3-ketoses, etcetera. The enediol is also an intermediate for the epimerization of an aldose or ketose.

http://reasonandscience.heavenforum.org/...r-the-cell

Now that scientists understand how some of these highly organized molecules function and why they are required for life, their origin must be explained. We know only four basic methods of producing ATP: in bacterial cell walls, in the cytoplasm by photosynthesis, in chloroplasts, and in mitochondria. No transitional forms exist to bridge these four methods by evolution. According to the concept of irreducible complexity, these ATP producing machines must have been manufactured as functioning units and they could not have evolved by Darwinism mechanisms. Anything less than an entire ATP molecule will not function and a manufacturing plant which is less than complete cannot produce a functioning ATP. Some believe that the field of biochemistry which has achieved this understanding has already falsified the Darwinian world view (Behe, 1996).

Laugh out load

Bowing



We are NOT going to visit Heaven Forums you crazed lunatic.

Real science please. Not your Created in a cardboard toilet version of science.

It should be noted by you and your ilk that cardboard is not a viable substance from which to build plumbing.

Now go away.

We just think you're mad as a snake.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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11-08-2015, 12:37 AM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(10-08-2015 08:12 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  You really like quote-mining that word, "problematic", you dishonest little shits.

Whoa...we got another atheist who frames his counter arguments around unprovoked insults.
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11-08-2015, 12:39 AM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(11-08-2015 12:24 AM)Banjo Wrote:  We are NOT going to visit Heaven Forums you crazed lunatic.

blah....blah...blah

We just think you're mad as a snake.

Yet another atheist who frames their arguments around insults
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11-08-2015, 12:45 AM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
Godexist,

I believe it has been hypothesized that mitochondria came into existence when one bacteria "swallowed" another. Instead of the larger one "digesting" the smaller one, they formed a symbiotic relationship. This may have been a freakish event that happened only once in the observable universe, but opened the door to the evolution of complex life on this planet.

That could be one pathway.
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11-08-2015, 12:50 AM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(11-08-2015 12:39 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(11-08-2015 12:24 AM)Banjo Wrote:  We are NOT going to visit Heaven Forums you crazed lunatic.

blah....blah...blah

We just think you're mad as a snake.

Yet another atheist who frames their arguments around insults

I have seen this tired old crap 100's of times.

Anyway, what do you expect when you walk uninvited into a room and start proselytizing?

And YOU, you smug sanctimonious dipshit. You seem to think you are some new Jesus "I forgive you, I forgive you". Well you can shove it where the sun doesn't shine bub. I know your type all too well. You have no intention of engaging in honest debate. I see you tell lies over and over. We have Google now and one can check the veracity of what you have been saying. All lies.

You're full of it mate and we all know it.

I think you are weak and a liar.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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11-08-2015, 12:54 AM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(11-08-2015 12:50 AM)Banjo Wrote:  
(11-08-2015 12:39 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Yet another atheist who frames their arguments around insults

I have seen this tired old crap 100's of times.

Anyway, what do you expect when you walk uninvited into a room and start proselytizing?

And YOU, you smug sanctimonious dipshit. You seem to think you are some new Jesus "I forgive you, I forgive you". Well you can shove it where the sun doesn't shine bub. I know your type all too well. You have no intention of engaging in honest debate. I see you tell lies over and over. We have Google now and one can check the veracity of what you have been saying. All lies.

You're full of it mate and we all know it.

I think you are weak and a liar.

I forgive yiou for calling me a smug sanctimonuis dipshit and for calling me weak and for calling me a liar.

You guys keep telling me theists and their positions are welcome here....but they really are not. Any theists who attacks your world view is visited with insults and scorn. If in moments of weakness they toss back a couple of insults....then more atheists jump in often accusing the theist of not being "christlike".
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