The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
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11-08-2015, 01:52 AM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(11-08-2015 01:47 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I come here to fight and argue and win.

Laughat Win? I guess you have to win at something. I award you the prize, you are the biggest douche in the universe Smile

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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11-08-2015, 01:57 AM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(11-08-2015 01:47 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I come here to fight and argue and win. And maybe help a few people along the way.

Have you managed any of those yet? Even just once? How long have you been coming here.

I do feel sorry that you feel compelled to do something so fruitless.
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11-08-2015, 01:58 AM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(11-08-2015 01:52 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(11-08-2015 01:47 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I come here to fight and argue and win.

Laughat Win? I guess you have to win at something. I award you the prize, you are the biggest douche in the universe Smile

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11-08-2015, 02:00 AM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(11-08-2015 01:47 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(11-08-2015 01:30 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Yeah he must be one lonely SOB. Nobody likes him so he comes amongst die hard atheists to preach and forgive them all for being rational. One sad human being.

Heyblowme. I forgive your being pathetic too. You poor poor sod.

I am loved in my own circle. I don't come here to find love(unlike you it seems) I come here to fight and argue and win. And maybe help a few people along the way.

HA! So the hypocrite now insults me. Not very christ like eh???

You people are all the same. I just got it out of you.

Go back to Hooters. You wont win here because fantasy is not real. You have zero chance.

Which god is it today, Zeus? Apollo? Aphrodite? Those three gods were worshipped for much longer than that pathetic Christ idiot who hardly said one wise thing and let that Roman spy Paul write his religion for him.

There are NO GODS. All were invented by humankind.

Now run along please. You are one of the most annoying theists I have ever encountered.

I used to debate theism in great detail. I studied the bible until I knew it nearly by heart. But you know what Blowme? Theists are all the same. They either do not know the bible at all and believe it s something it is not. For example a well written book. Or they are like you. Sanctimonious, hypocritical and full of themselves.

Please take it elsewhere. As I said earlier. You have no interest in honest debate. That is shown by you resorting to lies all the time.

Oh and I urge people to double check all the so called facts you bring up. Although most here are educated and don't need to.

Be gone.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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11-08-2015, 03:48 AM (This post was last modified: 11-08-2015 03:53 AM by The Organic Chemist.)
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(11-08-2015 12:00 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 11:25 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  Ok. So the aldol condensation proves what? I am co author of two papers that deal with asymmetric aldol additions. So therefore god? Your argument is a non-sequitur. These things that we do understand and that occur naturally have what supernatural implications? None. You said a crapload but I really doubt you know what this crap means (or doesn't mean). Do you really think that every time we discover something new or don't have a good understanding that this argument is anything other than crap? Even if we understand everything about the body except for 1 thing, idiots like you are going to claim IC. It's a dumb joke and you fell for it. If you want to see Behe in all his glory, look at [img]Kitzmiller v. Dover[/img] and see him in action. You seem to have this impression that don't underatand means won't understand. And as for Behe,

[Image: irreducible+stupidity.jpg.cf.jpg]

Author of two published papers and can't fix his own quote tags Weeping

Tongue

Mein grammar fuhrer, actually, more than that. Only two were on aldol chemistry. I usually don't proofread my posts because I am too lazy and I am using my phone. Tongue



Also, for whatever reason, my original post isn't showing up on my phone so I couldn't fix even if I cared to.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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11-08-2015, 07:31 AM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
I called him one of the "dishonest little shits" because they are dishonest little shits. They deliberately quote-mine to misrepresent what scientists say, they present debunked arguments as if they have never been addressed, and they ask us questions they really don't care about the answers to just so they can say "AHA!" if they stumble across one we can't answer, in order to give the impression to the uneducated public that science is clueless, in a concerted and deliberate effort to miseducate the public in the name of their narrow worldview. We have dealt with THAT particular Creationist's behavior many, many, many times, here. He links to his own websites to try to drive up traffic there, as well.

I believe the technical term for such behavior is, "Dishonest little shits."

An ad hominem attack is an unprovoked insult for no other purpose but discrediting the person's argument by making personal attacks against them rather than their argument. The fact that he is a dishonest shit is directly relevant to his arguments, here... he has proven this fact over and over.

So, Blowjob, you can take your sanctimonious self-righteousness and shove it up your ass with that powered dildo, above. Thank you.

I'm gonna be working in a friend's shop, 45 minutes away, all day, so I won't be online. Y'all have fun. I'm leaving as soon as I click Post Reply. Sad

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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11-08-2015, 09:12 AM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(10-08-2015 09:16 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Just wanted to repost this 1) because of my total man-crush toward Dr. Tyson, and 2) because I just finished watching the whole thing, and the end of it horrified me, broke my heart, as he talked about the golden age of science and mathematics in the Muslim world, from 800-1100 C.E., inviting scholars from all around the world to come to Baghdad, the center of free thought, and how all of this died after 300 years of flourishing due to religious fundamentalist thinking that attacked it as "a threat to faith".

For 300 years, Muslims made almost every major advance: arabic numbers, algebra, the algorithm, the naming of nearly every star in the sky, etc... and then it was gone in a flash, with the rise of religious intolerance for science in that culture. Now there is nothing. Still. A millennium later. He compared it to what is going on in America, right now, showing the Creationist billboards and anti-BigBang/anti-evolution propaganda, discussing the rhetoric of those who cannot accept the scientific worldview.

He then pointed out that, with 1 billion Muslims in the world, only two have ever received Nobel Prizes. Two. (And one was in Economics.) 300 years of ruling the world of freethought, and now 1/7th of the world's population is almost entirely out of the arena of advancing mankind's knowledge. Why? Because if you look backward into the dusty pages of a Holy Book for your answers, it's all you ever see. Sad

I think I'm gonna go take another motorcycle ride, now.

Scholasticism waxed and waned in all pre-modern societies.

There were kind of some external factors which affected Baghdad's academic mood.

... this is my signature!
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11-08-2015, 11:46 AM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(11-08-2015 12:45 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Godexist,

I believe it has been hypothesized that mitochondria came into existence when one bacteria "swallowed" another. Instead of the larger one "digesting" the smaller one, they formed a symbiotic relationship. This may have been a freakish event that happened only once in the observable universe, but opened the door to the evolution of complex life on this planet.

That could be one pathway.

That could be one pathway. But i think, rather NOT.

http://reasonandscience.heavenforum.org/...ochondrion

Mammalian mtDNA only encodes 13 proteins, but these are nevertheless essential for cell viability as they are crucial components of the oxidative phosphorylation system, located in the inner mitochondrial membrane

All of the proteins required for mtDNA maintenance and expression are encoded by the nuclear genome and have to be imported into mitochondria after synthesis in the cytosol. Therefore, it is clear that a coordinated action between the two cellular genomes is required to regulate oxidative phosphorylation capacity in response to physiological demand and disease states

That makes it pretty clear, that is a interdependent and interlocked system, so one more clear evidence that the endosymbiosis theory is nonsense. It makes it also clear, that both, the nucleus, all of the proteins required for mtDNA maintenance and expression, the DNA that encodes for these proteins, the import machinery, the cytosol, the cell membrane, and mitochondria had to emerge at the same time. A stepwise evolutionary and gradual emergence  is impossible.


http://reasonandscience.heavenforum.org/...tochondria

Multisubunit protein complexes that function as protein translocators mediate protein movement across mitochondrial membranes. The TOM complex transfers proteins across the outer membrane, and two TIM complexes (TIM23 and TIM22) transfer proteins across the inner membrane

These complexes contain some components that act as receptors for mitochondrial precursor proteins, and other components that form the translocation channels. The TOM complex is required for the import of all nucleus-encoded mitochondrial proteins.

This is another reason why the endosymbiosis theory makes no sense. The mechanism of synthesis of all proteins INSIDE the bacteria would change, and a new mechanism where the proteins are synthesised in the nucleus would have to emerge. And so the import mechanism with all related proteins and signalling mechanisms. Not a easy task.

It initially transports their signal sequences into the intermembrane space and helps to insert transmembrane proteins into the outer membrane. β-barrel proteins, which are particularly abundant in the outer membrane, are then passed on to an additional translocator, the SAM complex, which helps them to fold properly in the outer membrane. The TIM23 complex transports some soluble proteins into the matrix space and helps to insert transmembrane proteins into the inner membrane. The TIM22 complex mediates the insertion of a subclass of inner membrane proteins, including the transporter that moves ADP, ATP, and phosphate in and out of mitochondria.

This strongly suggests that the whole mechanism, and so the proteins, had to emerge all at once, and be fully operational right from the start. How did the TIM23 complex " learn " how to transport the soluble proteins into the matrix space, and help to insert transmembrane proteins into the inner membrane ? trial and error ?

Yet another protein translocator in the inner mitochondrial membrane, the OXA complex, mediates the insertion of those inner membrane proteins that are synthesized within mitochondria. It also helps to insert some imported inner membrane proteins that are initially transported into the matrix space by the other complexes

Only 13 proteins necessary for a mitochondrion are actually coded in mitochondrial DNA. The vast majority of proteins destined for the mitochondria are encoded in the nucleus and synthesized in the cytoplasm. These are tagged by an N-terminal signal sequence. Following transport through the cytosol from the nucleus, the signal sequence is recognized by a receptor protein in the transporter outer membrane (TOM) complex. 1

This reinforces the evidence that the endosymbiosis theory is false.

[Image: etrrtt11.png]

Thats what precisely was to be expected: some wishy washy pseudo scientific speculation about " proto " mitochondrion, and a primitive setup of protein translocases. The problem with this line of reasoning is always, its baseless speculation , where words like " might be ", " it has been suggested ", " would have ", " demonstrates the feasability " are nothing else than assertions without a shred of evidence, just in order to provide a framework, where the evolutionary paradigm might fit. Thats not science. Thats pseudo science at its best.
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11-08-2015, 11:51 AM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(11-08-2015 07:31 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I called him one of the "dishonest little shits" because they are dishonest little shits.

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11-08-2015, 12:21 PM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(11-08-2015 01:47 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I come here to fight and argue and win.

Are you still expecting that will ever happen ?

(11-08-2015 01:47 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  And maybe help a few people along the way.

Oh, like teach "How not to argue", and "Blowme's complete guide to Internet Whining and Bitching" ?

Are they offering these this Fall ?

Big Grin

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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