The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
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16-08-2015, 02:58 PM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(16-08-2015 02:37 PM)Godexists Wrote:  
(16-08-2015 12:31 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  You got any scientific credentials to back you up? 'Cause many of us here do. I don't think you do because your posts indicate a serious lack of even an elementary grasp of science.

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And where the fuck is it? You are a scam artist.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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16-08-2015, 03:31 PM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
Compelling evidence? I didn't see any.

I have the credentials you speak of, and I didn't see any.

But I'm tired of addressing your cut-and-paste Machine Gun Tactic from dishonest (and we have already proven so) Creationist websites.

We TOLD you. And we keep telling you.

WE ARE NOT GOING TO ADDRESS MACHINE GUNNED COPY/PASTE MATERIAL FROM CREATIONIST WEBSITES.

You don't listen. You refuse to listen. Because you are a fundamentally dishonest person.

You can make all the stupid cartoons you like, but it doesn't change that fact. Or this one:

You should be ashamed of yourself.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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16-08-2015, 03:57 PM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(16-08-2015 06:32 AM)Godexists Wrote:  A irreducible complex system can indeed change over time. Thats called micro evolution.

"Micro-evolution" is a nonsense term created by proponents of intelligent design. There is no functional difference between micro-evolution and evolution as accepted to exist by mainstream science. Creationists have simply reached the point where they cannot deny that evolution happens in observable systems, and thus have to reach for a way to allow for this without actually coming out and saying that it's right.

Really. If you accept that micro-evolution happens, you by necessity accept the mainstream theory of evolution, because that is what evolution is. The only way to reconcile it with creationism is to say that there are some things that didn't come from evolution, but which, for whatever reason, can still be affected by it. They call these magical things "irreducibly complex systems".

And they are every bit as nonsensical as the idea of micro-evolution.

(16-08-2015 12:25 PM)Godexists Wrote:  ...a: parts that have beneficial functions that are not the final function of the item in question,

what beneficial function would have a half eye ? a half arm ? a half leg ? a half circulatory system ? a incomplete photosynthesis apparatus, without the oxygen evolving complex, for example ? or without a proton gradient ? there are many parts and enzymes, which are function specific, and not used in various biological systems, but only in specific ones, as for example the last 7 enzymes in the chlorophyll biosynthesis pathway are unique.....

All of the above "irreducibly complex" systems have been extensively researched. We know where the eye came from, for example. Arms and legs, too - those began as fins, which in turn began as flagella and the like. And the circulatory system. And, yes, even photosynthesis has a clearly-mapped evolutionary path.

So much for "irreducibly complex".

(16-08-2015 12:25 PM)Godexists Wrote:  It is irrelevant if subparts of a molecular machine can serve a different function.

That is precisely what is relevant. The parts of your claimed "irreducibly complex" systems did not necessarily serve their current functions when they appeared. They later became part of the system, but did not necessarily originate for that purpose.

The fact that each and every "irreducible" system can be reduced in this manner is an absolute killing blow for the concept of irreducible complexity, whether you like it or not.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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16-08-2015, 07:01 PM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(16-08-2015 03:31 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Compelling evidence? I didn't see any.

I have the credentials you speak of, and I didn't see any.

But I'm tired of addressing your cut-and-paste Machine Gun Tactic from dishonest (and we have already proven so) Creationist websites.

We TOLD you. And we keep telling you.

WE ARE NOT GOING TO ADDRESS MACHINE GUNNED COPY/PASTE MATERIAL FROM CREATIONIST WEBSITES.

You don't listen. You refuse to listen. Because you are a fundamentally dishonest person.

You can make all the stupid cartoons you like, but it doesn't change that fact. Or this one:

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Let us suppose God would provide you undeniable proof of design in nature, and that the God of the bible would be the author of the universe. What would you do?

a) would you keep your life in the same manner as now
b) would you repent , accept Jesus Christ as your savior, and start following him as your Lord ?
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16-08-2015, 07:09 PM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
Yeah, sure. Because I'm an honest person. But I began my life as a Creationist, and have spent the past 22 years learning the lies that Creationists try to employ to get people to convert (or to not deconvert).

People who employ such tactics are the lowest scum on the planet.

As for "my life in the same manner as now", not much would change. I already treat people as I'd want to be treated. Really, all that would change would be giving 10% of my income to clergy and spending time praying instead of reading.

I cannot imagine anything you could say to me that I would consider "undeniable proof of design in nature" or "the God of the Bible" as the "author of the universe". I have seen and refuted every argument you have sent in here, so far, years ago. Much of it is so-long-ago disproved that I can't believe it's still on the web, let alone that you're still copy-and-pasting it.

It genuinely pisses me off to have spent so much time learning how evolution/biochemistry works, only to have people like you deliberately lie about what science says, make up fake science journals, and produce fancy graphics that are designed to fool people who don't know the science or who can't/don't/won't read closely enough to spot the mistakes.

I'm sick to death of dealing with regurgitated bullshit, from answering a question posted by an "honest" Christian (heavy on the irony, with the quotation marks, there) only to have the answer completely ignored as if it was never given and another question "machine-gunned" my way like THIS time it will prove something.

You people lie. You are liars. Perhaps not you, personally; you may not realize that the sites you are parroting are lying to you. But in either case, you are presenting lies on this board and trying to pass them off as scientific truth, In The Name of Gawd™. It is disgusting and, as I said before, YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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16-08-2015, 07:09 PM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(16-08-2015 07:01 PM)Godexists Wrote:  Let us suppose God would provide you undeniable proof of design in nature, and that the God of the bible would be the author of the universe. What would you do?


b) would you repent , accept Jesus Christ as your savior, and start following him as your Lord ?

Absolutely.

I'd still have questions for him though.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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16-08-2015, 07:17 PM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(16-08-2015 07:01 PM)Godexists Wrote:  
(16-08-2015 03:31 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Compelling evidence? I didn't see any.

I have the credentials you speak of, and I didn't see any.

But I'm tired of addressing your cut-and-paste Machine Gun Tactic from dishonest (and we have already proven so) Creationist websites.

We TOLD you. And we keep telling you.

WE ARE NOT GOING TO ADDRESS MACHINE GUNNED COPY/PASTE MATERIAL FROM CREATIONIST WEBSITES.

You don't listen. You refuse to listen. Because you are a fundamentally dishonest person.

You can make all the stupid cartoons you like, but it doesn't change that fact. Or this one:

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Let us suppose God would provide you undeniable proof of design in nature, and that the God of the bible would be the author of the universe. What would you do?

a) would you keep your life in the same manner as now
b) would you repent , accept Jesus Christ as your savior, and start following him as your Lord ?
Choice a, it's always choice a,

#sigh
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16-08-2015, 07:22 PM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
Yeah GM I wouldn't repent because I have not done anything wrong. What I mean is I would believe in God. If he were to prove his existence.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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16-08-2015, 08:02 PM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(16-08-2015 07:01 PM)Godexists Wrote:  Let us suppose God would provide you undeniable proof of design in nature, and that the God of the bible would be the author of the universe. What would you do?

Let us say that Old Zecariah Whateley personally escorted you to the second floor of the old family farmhouse and showed you the true form of Wilbur's twin. Would you accept that all existence is meaningless and that the only true expression of worth in all the universe is that of the power of Azathoth, or would you simply run screaming into the night and allow the blasted, ruined nature of your sanity to shield you from the pain inherent in every moment of your new, pitiful existence?

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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16-08-2015, 10:12 PM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
Irreducible Complexity:
Replacing "I don't know how this works" with "Therfore God did it" since the Supreme Court ruled against teaching unscientific Creationism in public schools.

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