The Tricky Notion of Karma
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30-07-2011, 12:41 AM
The Tricky Notion of Karma
Hi guys (all inclusive)----folk whatever~~~been caught before.
It seems to me that atheism predominently deals with western religion, rather than those earlier ones coming from the East. This is understandable as Monotheism purports to deal with one god. Strange that, as Christianity's monotheisn is three in one; father, son, holy spirit. Polytheism of course can have thousands of gods.
My main interest here is the so called infallible law of Karma which probably has its origins in Hinduism and later, Buddhism and Janism.
Many Buddhists are seen as atheists as they worship no particular god---BUT is this correct? Karma is seen as the law of action and reaction, wherby good deeds attract good results and bad deeds bad results.. Followers argue that every evil will be paid back by suffering to the soul (these souls inhabit many bodies to learn about morality) and vice versa with good actions(rewards). How this is all justified in terms of the ultimate cosmic moral requirements is never 'explained'.
I maintain that the theory of Karma is in fact just a somewhat different belief in god and that Buddhists aren't really atheists at all.
In Australia, where I come from, many new age systems are flourishing; many of these are pushing Karma and its off shoot reincarnation.
Even some so called Christian churches ,Unity for example are involved in these doctrines. Am I right, can an infallible law relating to every Universal requirement be seen as a god in disguise?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Murchovski.Wink
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04-08-2011, 10:38 AM
RE: The Tricky Notion of Karma
Interesting point i wouldnt say it was a somewhat different belief in a god as it doesnt involve a god. Though the idea of karma is essentialy true (every action has a reaction). And in a way if you do something good people usualy treat you better the opposite is true aswell. Its unlikely to be a cosmic force that controls it. I still think its an interesting concept.

Behold the power of the force!
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04-08-2011, 10:59 AM
RE: The Tricky Notion of Karma
Yes it is very interesting.
You could say that they worship it as if it were a god, but I don't know if I'd go so far as to say that we should label it as such. All they have really done is create a law of nature (that isn't true, but does no harm) to abide by. They follow it as if it were mandated by a god.
I tried Buddhism once.... didn't stick.
Besides I don't think I want anything to do with Karma... from what I've heard, it's kind of a bitch.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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04-08-2011, 04:20 PM (This post was last modified: 04-08-2011 04:27 PM by Mr Woof.)
RE: The Tricky Notion of Karma
(04-08-2011 10:59 AM)lucradis Wrote:  Yes it is very interesting.
You could say that they worship it as if it were a god, but I don't know if I'd go so far as to say that we should label it as such. All they have really done is create a law of nature (that isn't true, but does no harm) to abide by. They follow it as if it were mandated by a god.
I tried Buddhism once.... didn't stick.
Besides I don't think I want anything to do with Karma... from what I've heard, it's kind of a bitch.
Thanks Lucradis.
Anything to get off the old monotheism for a while.
I am having another look at Buddhism myself.
Can be very abstract stuff, but like some aspects.Cool


(04-08-2011 10:38 AM)FSM_scot Wrote:  Interesting point i wouldnt say it was a somewhat different belief in a god as it doesnt involve a god. Though the idea of karma is essentialy true (every action has a reaction). And in a way if you do something good people usualy treat you better the opposite is true aswell. Its unlikely to be a cosmic force that controls it. I still think its an interesting concept.
Yeah I get your drift and appreciate Bender's quote. A lot could happen out there in eternity!Tongue
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05-08-2011, 05:54 PM
RE: The Tricky Notion of Karma
I've never studied Buddhism so I don't know if they qualify as atheists or not. (But I have been practicing zazen for several decades now and I thank them for giving me that. It's what prayer should be.) But from what I read many of them find the natural law of causation sufficiently equivalent to karma. So that's no more theist than science. Of course, this otherwise apparently obvious natural law has been called into question by Hume the Destroyer.

I'm personally a big fan of instant karma, where the effects of my actions have an immediate beneficial, neutral, or adverse impact on my self the moment they are performed.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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05-08-2011, 07:13 PM
RE: The Tricky Notion of Karma
Zazen is wonderful and I wish I could do it. The reason I cannot is the same reason Buddhism and me never hung out for long. I am not a peaceful individual, I can be, but I have limits that I don't believe any level of training could overcome.
I would make a terrible Monk, although I would love to be some kind of crazy shaolin style monk that could kick all sorts of ass whilst climbing trees without using my hands because I am so freaking in control. But I think I'll be lucky to be able to do the splits just one more time before I die...

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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06-08-2011, 05:43 PM
RE: The Tricky Notion of Karma
(05-08-2011 07:13 PM)lucradis Wrote:  I am not a peaceful individual, I can be, but I have limits that I don't believe any level of training could overcome.

But you're working on that right? As long as you're working on it it's all good.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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06-08-2011, 10:28 PM
RE: The Tricky Notion of Karma
(05-08-2011 05:54 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I've never studied Buddhism so I don't know if they qualify as atheists or not. (But I have been practicing zazen for several decades now and I thank them for giving me that. It's what prayer should be.) But from what I read many of them find the natural law of causation sufficiently equivalent to karma. So that's no more theist than science. Of course, this otherwise apparently obvious natural law has been called into question by Hume the Destroyer.

I'm personally a big fan of instant karma, where the effects of my actions have an immediate beneficial, neutral, or adverse impact on my self the moment they are performed.

As for the 'you're temporary...... 'quote this is quite similar to the Buddhist notion of Anatta which teaches the impermenancy of everything. I am no expert but I think it also teaches that all 'selfs' are in a perpetual state of flux, despite not really existingand somehow return to the perpetually changing cosmos.
The possible ramifications of all of this don't really appealDodgy
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07-08-2011, 01:27 PM
RE: The Tricky Notion of Karma
(06-08-2011 10:28 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  As for the 'you're temporary...... 'quote this is quite similar to the Buddhist notion of Anatta which teaches the impermenancy of everything. I am no expert but I think it also teaches that all 'selfs' are in a perpetual state of flux, despite not really existingand somehow return to the perpetually changing cosmos.

Anatta. Very cool. Thanks!

(06-08-2011 10:28 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  The possible ramifications of all of this don't really appealDodgy

I don't know about that. Are the possible ramifications of any other alternative really any more appealing?

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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08-08-2011, 01:06 AM
RE: The Tricky Notion of Karma
(07-08-2011 01:27 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(06-08-2011 10:28 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  As for the 'you're temporary...... 'quote this is quite similar to the Buddhist notion of Anatta which teaches the impermenancy of everything. I am no expert but I think it also teaches that all 'selfs' are in a perpetual state of flux, despite not really existingand somehow return to the perpetually changing cosmos.

Anatta. Very cool. Thanks!

(06-08-2011 10:28 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  The possible ramifications of all of this don't really appealDodgy

I don't know about that. Are the possible ramifications of any other alternative really any more appealing?

Well yes, I get your point. 'Whatever'? merging into the 'potentialities' good, bad, and indifferent is certainly preferable to eternal hellfire or heavenly 'bliss'------------- Hmmmm! Might still opt for extinction.Undecided
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