The True Costs of Not Vaccinating
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16-07-2013, 04:25 AM
RE: The True Costs of Not Vaccinating
(18-06-2013 05:32 AM)AtheistTeacher Wrote:  This is something I am pretty passionate about. My kid is 2 and a half and he is up to date on all vaccinations, but what really gets me going is how in his daycare he had been around several children with delusional parents who refuse to vaccinate. Of course this was not supposed to happen, but our provider made exceptions for friends of theirs and watched their kid. Maybe I overreacted, but when I found out I flipped. One of the biggest reasons some of these unnecessary diseases are making a comeback in parts of the nation and world is because of this belief, lacking even a SINGLE shred of evidence, that vaccinations can harm your child, and that is can cause Autism. Never mind that all of this has been debunked and discredited. Andrew Wakefield, the "doctor" who penned the original paper and championed the argument for linking vaccines to Autism, etc. has been named one of science's greatest frauds because of course his research was all faked and unable to be replicated by any other scientist. Just another snake charmer trying to make a quick buck off the fears of parents.
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16-07-2013, 04:35 AM
RE: The True Costs of Not Vaccinating
Talk about political correctness. Obviously a vaccine would be harmful if you put poisons into it. I mean, nobody would accept a vaccine from Josef Mengele or Jim Jones. So the discussion should be about precisely what is in the vaccines being forced on us. i stress forced because that`s the reality of this. Do I have a right to not have mercury forced into my bloodstream? I vote "yes" and the real abuse is by the people who insist that I don`t, not by people who want to be left alone.
And anyway, if it is true that people who are vaccinated are immune then what does it matter if somebody else isn`t vaccinated? You`re immune right? And if you`re not immune so that my unclean, non-vaccinated person is a threat to you, why did you get vaccinated in the first place? And don`t give me herd immunity. We`re not a herd but have individual immune systems.
The H1 n1 fiasco show clearly that there is no reason to trust vaccines anymore. Sure, they could be used beneficially, but they just aren`t. This particular vaccine which was forced on the public world wide, after every national government had wasted its taxpayers money on billions of rounds of it, DID NOT WORK because the flu virus changes each season so it is impossible to prepare the correct batch even if the objective was benevolent, rather than fraud and corruption. It was also full of poisons like mercury/thimerasol and squalen AND politicians and other "elites" got a separate one without all the toxins. What sort of "public health" is this, even if the pro vaccine rhetoric is legitimate? I`m not interested personally, and have a hard time understanding where all the confidence in this "medical" system comes from.
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16-07-2013, 05:35 AM
RE: The True Costs of Not Vaccinating
The real problem with vaccines is the trust, then, not the very vaccine itself. And I would agree. Trust is vital when this subject is concerned, so now it is all up to you and your perception. How much do you trust "them"?

But this is one of those topics where opinions are like assholes; everybody has one.

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16-07-2013, 05:44 AM
RE: The True Costs of Not Vaccinating
(16-07-2013 05:35 AM)Filox Wrote:  The real problem with vaccines is the trust, then, not the very vaccine itself. And I would agree. Trust is vital when this subject is concerned, so now it is all up to you and your perception. How much do you trust "them"?

But this is one of those topics where opinions are like assholes; everybody has one.

Smile

Sorry about the multiple posts. I missed the moderation disclaimer of first posts and thought I`d made a mistake.
Anyway, you`re right of course. But what is indisputable fact is that basically anything could be put into a syringe and called a vaccine. Without knowing more about what actually is in them I think people have every right to be skeptical, and even to refuse to accept vaccines. it`s forced medication after all, which is the sort of thing the Nazis and Soviets did.
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16-07-2013, 09:16 AM
RE: The True Costs of Not Vaccinating
(16-07-2013 04:35 AM)Skulb Wrote:  Talk about political correctness. Obviously a vaccine would be harmful if you put poisons into it. I mean, nobody would accept a vaccine from Josef Mengele or Jim Jones. So the discussion should be about precisely what is in the vaccines being forced on us. i stress forced because that`s the reality of this. Do I have a right to not have mercury forced into my bloodstream? I vote "yes" and the real abuse is by the people who insist that I don`t, not by people who want to be left alone.
(16-07-2013 05:44 AM)Skulb Wrote:  Anyway, you`re right of course. But what is indisputable fact is that basically anything could be put into a syringe and called a vaccine. Without knowing more about what actually is in them I think people have every right to be skeptical, and even to refuse to accept vaccines. it`s forced medication after all, which is the sort of thing the Nazis and Soviets did.

If you want to be a paranoid lunatic that's your prerogative.

Perhaps a charitable interpretation of your point is, "don't take medicine from strangers". Fortunately for those of us in developed countries, there is an extremely well-organized regulatory apparatus for the entire medical profession, which tends to be rather careful about what it sticks into people.

You're one step away from a rainwater and grain alcohol diet, at this rate...

(16-07-2013 04:35 AM)Skulb Wrote:  And anyway, if it is true that people who are vaccinated are immune then what does it matter if somebody else isn`t vaccinated? You`re immune right? And if you`re not immune so that my unclean, non-vaccinated person is a threat to you, why did you get vaccinated in the first place? And don`t give me herd immunity. We`re not a herd but have individual immune systems.

Herd immunity is a demonstrable scientific principle. Ignore it if you will, but be aware that 'lol no' isn't a valid criticism of science.

(16-07-2013 04:35 AM)Skulb Wrote:  The H1 n1 fiasco show clearly that there is no reason to trust vaccines anymore. Sure, they could be used beneficially, but they just aren`t. This particular vaccine which was forced on the public world wide, after every national government had wasted its taxpayers money on billions of rounds of it, DID NOT WORK because the flu virus changes each season so it is impossible to prepare the correct batch even if the objective was benevolent, rather than fraud and corruption.

The list of things you don't understand grows ever longer.

(16-07-2013 04:35 AM)Skulb Wrote:  It was also full of poisons like mercury/thimerasol and squalen

Yes, and bananas are radioactive.

(16-07-2013 04:35 AM)Skulb Wrote:  AND politicians and other "elites" got a separate one without all the toxins.

Horseshit.

(16-07-2013 04:35 AM)Skulb Wrote:  What sort of "public health" is this, even if the pro vaccine rhetoric is legitimate? I`m not interested personally, and have a hard time understanding where all the confidence in this "medical" system comes from.

Perhaps it has something do with the fact that we're no longer likely to die starving and diseased long before our fortieth birthdays?

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16-07-2013, 09:36 AM
RE: The True Costs of Not Vaccinating
First of all insults are not allowed under the forum guidelines. if you can`t make your argument without calling me names, perhaps they`re not as unassailable as you seem to think.
Considering you can`t even rise to the level of civilized conversation I`m not gonna waste any more time on your uneducated opinions.
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16-07-2013, 09:39 AM
RE: The True Costs of Not Vaccinating
(16-07-2013 09:36 AM)Skulb Wrote:  First of all insults are not allowed under the forum guidelines.

Fortunately, I didn't insult you.

(16-07-2013 09:36 AM)Skulb Wrote:  If you can`t make your argument without calling me names, perhaps they`re not as unassailable as you seem to think.

I called your arguments names, because they're dumb. The distinction seems to have escaped you. If I went around making factually incorrect statements and invoking Godwin, I'd expect to be roundly chastised.

(16-07-2013 09:36 AM)Skulb Wrote:  Considering you can`t even rise to the level of civilized conversation I`m not gonna waste any more time on your uneducated opinions.

Good riddance!

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16-07-2013, 11:44 AM
RE: The True Costs of Not Vaccinating
"paranoid lunatic"

So if I were to call you this you wouldn`t take that as an insult?

And for someone who makes every logical fallacy in the book in a short reply, your efforts now to postulate your personal opinions as absolute truth without any evidence at all, and that anyone who disagrees with you have "dumb" arguments are just stunning. No intelligent conversation is possible as long as you`re this indoctrinated.
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16-07-2013, 11:57 AM
RE: The True Costs of Not Vaccinating
(16-07-2013 11:44 AM)Skulb Wrote:  "paranoid lunatic"

So if I were to call you this you wouldn`t take that as an insult?

You can call me a paranoid lunatic just as soon as I start drawing lines between Josef Mengele and the entire medical establishment.

Boiled down your claim amounted to, "I can't personally verify the contents of what a doctor says is a vaccine, therefore it is too risky to allow". That is, plainly, a silly thing to say. If there were adverse effects from common treatments they wouldn't be common.

How do you feed yourself? Do you grow all your own food? You can no more be sure of what's contained in it. You can't very well control the air you breathe either.

(16-07-2013 11:44 AM)Skulb Wrote:  And for someone who makes every logical fallacy in the book in a short reply...

Name one, champ. Name one logical fallacy I put forth.

(16-07-2013 11:44 AM)Skulb Wrote:  ... your efforts now to postulate your personal opinions as absolute truth without any evidence at all

What is asserted without evidence (hint: that's you) can be dismissed without evidence (hint: that's me).

Evidence? Perhaps you could consider the incidence of polio in developed countries. Conveniently enough, it correlates rather closely with the introduction of polio vaccines. I wonder why?

(16-07-2013 11:44 AM)Skulb Wrote:  ... and that anyone who disagrees with you have "dumb" arguments are just stunning.

You do. Sorry, but that's the truth. You evidently don't understand the contents or the mechanism or the benefits of common vaccines.

(16-07-2013 11:44 AM)Skulb Wrote:  No intelligent conversation is possible as long as you`re this indoctrinated.

Sure. Indoctrinated.

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16-07-2013, 12:15 PM
RE: The True Costs of Not Vaccinating
Ad hominem attacks and appeals to authority are logical fallacies. is all you`ve got so far.
What I wrote was a reasonable argumentation, which means it`s based on thinking and not specific facts. It is a logical fact that vaccines can be and often are contaminated, and that as a result people have the right to know for sure what`s in them and to refuse to take them. None of this is really debatable, but you responded with insults and appeals to authority.
That`s why you`re indoctrinated because you operate on emotions and bullying tactics instead of facts. Or reason. And that is why I would prefer to wait for some intelligent life to appear in this thread. Debating you is as pointless as talking to a wall.
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