The Trump Assault on Freedom Begins
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25-01-2017, 01:37 PM
RE: The Trump Assault on Freedom Begins
(25-01-2017 01:30 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(25-01-2017 01:11 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  He's been a dictator all of his adult life. In all of his companies, it's been his way or the highway. If anyone disagrees, he fires them. He doesn't seem to have figured out that the government doesn't work that way. Technically, he's not "the boss" -- he and the rest of the government are the employees. The American people are the boss. But there's no way he will ever get that.

Elected officials are our representatives. The people voted, and the electoral college confirmed. The people voted, and democrats have been replaced by republicans across the country. Right now, they have a mandate. The people have given them the power to institute their agenda, an agenda that was free for all to read on the GOP website and was put on display in debates and ads.

Right now the voters are sending republicans to do their bidding. As long as they stay within constitutional bounds they are the boss.

I'm really tired of this "mandate" crap. Of course they will act as if they have a "mandate", but if it were that simple, we could just let the people vote directly on things and the majority wins. There are millions of people in this country who did not vote for Republicans or for their agenda. The President and Congress are supposed to represent those people as well, not just the ones who voted for them. Trump has even stated that he intends to do this. Fat chance that he actually will, though. He's going to do what he wants to do, and fuck what the people want -- even the ones who voted for him. And Congressional Republicans will pretend that, since they have a majority, they can do whatever they want. But that's not the way it's supposed to work.
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25-01-2017, 01:42 PM
RE: The Trump Assault on Freedom Begins
(25-01-2017 01:37 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  I'm really tired of this "mandate" crap. Of course they will act as if they have a "mandate", but if it were that simple, we could just let the people vote directly on things and the majority wins. There are millions of people in this country who did not vote for Republicans or for their agenda. The President and Congress are supposed to represent those people as well, not just the ones who voted for them. Trump has even stated that he intends to do this. Fat chance that he actually will, though. He's going to do what he wants to do, and fuck what the people want -- even the ones who voted for him. And Congressional Republicans will pretend that, since they have a majority, they can do whatever they want. But that's not the way it's supposed to work.

They always have a mandate to the extent that "mandate" has now become completely devalued and devoid of meaning. Cheney said Bush had a mandate even though the Supreme Court had to give it to him while Obama never had a mandate even though he obliterated his opponents twice. This is how groupspeak works. Someone mentioned the term "post-truth" era. I'm gonna look into it because it feels about right.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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25-01-2017, 01:48 PM
RE: The Trump Assault on Freedom Begins
(25-01-2017 01:37 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(25-01-2017 01:30 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Elected officials are our representatives. The people voted, and the electoral college confirmed. The people voted, and democrats have been replaced by republicans across the country. Right now, they have a mandate. The people have given them the power to institute their agenda, an agenda that was free for all to read on the GOP website and was put on display in debates and ads.

Right now the voters are sending republicans to do their bidding. As long as they stay within constitutional bounds they are the boss.

I'm really tired of this "mandate" crap. Of course they will act as if they have a "mandate", but if it were that simple, we could just let the people vote directly on things and the majority wins. There are millions of people in this country who did not vote for Republicans or for their agenda. The President and Congress are supposed to represent those people as well, not just the ones who voted for them. Trump has even stated that he intends to do this. Fat chance that he actually will, though. He's going to do what he wants to do, and fuck what the people want -- even the ones who voted for him. And Congressional Republicans will pretend that, since they have a majority, they can do whatever they want. But that's not the way it's supposed to work.

One side will always feel the other side is wrong or unconstitutional. America has become a partisan nation, and we have more 5-4 supreme court decisions than anytime in our history. Each side looks at the other like they are idiots or criminals or the enemy. Families are divided. When one party has power by a 52%-48% margin in representation, the people that are represented by the 48% are going to feel left out. The parties used to be a lot closer in belief systems. They voted together a majority of the time in congress. Now they only cross party lines for budget bills. I don't see a way to fix it except to split the country in two and kick the other side out.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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25-01-2017, 01:51 PM
RE: The Trump Assault on Freedom Begins
(25-01-2017 01:30 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  As long as they stay within constitutional bounds they are the boss.

Trump has already breached that.

Source: Emoluments Clause

Time for him to stand down or face impeachment.
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25-01-2017, 01:52 PM
RE: The Trump Assault on Freedom Begins
(25-01-2017 01:42 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(25-01-2017 01:37 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  I'm really tired of this "mandate" crap. Of course they will act as if they have a "mandate", but if it were that simple, we could just let the people vote directly on things and the majority wins. There are millions of people in this country who did not vote for Republicans or for their agenda. The President and Congress are supposed to represent those people as well, not just the ones who voted for them. Trump has even stated that he intends to do this. Fat chance that he actually will, though. He's going to do what he wants to do, and fuck what the people want -- even the ones who voted for him. And Congressional Republicans will pretend that, since they have a majority, they can do whatever they want. But that's not the way it's supposed to work.

They always have a mandate to the extent that "mandate" has now become completely devalued and devoid of meaning. Cheney said Bush had a mandate even though the Supreme Court had to give it to him while Obama never had a mandate even though he obliterated his opponents twice. This is how groupspeak works. Someone mentioned the term "post-truth" era. I'm gonna look into it because it feels about right.

That's why liberals keep losing everything else but excel at presidential campaigns. You guys only think about the presidency. My post specifically mentions both the executive and legislative branch. The mandate exists because democrats barely hold power at the state level as well as federal. No mandate exists because of Trump. It comes from the fact republicans control 65% of all government seats.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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25-01-2017, 01:54 PM
RE: The Trump Assault on Freedom Begins
(25-01-2017 01:51 PM)Heath_Tierney Wrote:  
(25-01-2017 01:30 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  As long as they stay within constitutional bounds they are the boss.

Trump has already breached that.

Source: Emoluments Clause

Time for him to stand down or face impeachment.

Receiving payment is not a "gift."

In fact, it is the opposite of gift.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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25-01-2017, 01:59 PM
RE: The Trump Assault on Freedom Begins
(25-01-2017 01:48 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(25-01-2017 01:37 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  I'm really tired of this "mandate" crap. Of course they will act as if they have a "mandate", but if it were that simple, we could just let the people vote directly on things and the majority wins. There are millions of people in this country who did not vote for Republicans or for their agenda. The President and Congress are supposed to represent those people as well, not just the ones who voted for them. Trump has even stated that he intends to do this. Fat chance that he actually will, though. He's going to do what he wants to do, and fuck what the people want -- even the ones who voted for him. And Congressional Republicans will pretend that, since they have a majority, they can do whatever they want. But that's not the way it's supposed to work.

One side will always feel the other side is wrong or unconstitutional. America has become a partisan nation, and we have more 5-4 supreme court decisions than anytime in our history. Each side looks at the other like they are idiots or criminals or the enemy. Families are divided. When one party has power by a 52%-48% margin in representation, the people that are represented by the 48% are going to feel left out. The parties used to be a lot closer in belief systems. They voted together a majority of the time in congress. Now they only cross party lines for budget bills. I don't see a way to fix it except to split the country in two and kick the other side out.

It might be an idea. But many states, especially the red states would lose out. Not bueno for red states http://www.businessinsider.com/the-state...nt-2015-7. They depend on Federal handouts underwritten by socialist blue state economies.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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25-01-2017, 02:11 PM
RE: The Trump Assault on Freedom Begins
(25-01-2017 01:52 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(25-01-2017 01:42 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  They always have a mandate to the extent that "mandate" has now become completely devalued and devoid of meaning. Cheney said Bush had a mandate even though the Supreme Court had to give it to him while Obama never had a mandate even though he obliterated his opponents twice. This is how groupspeak works. Someone mentioned the term "post-truth" era. I'm gonna look into it because it feels about right.

That's why liberals keep losing everything else but excel at presidential campaigns. You guys only think about the presidency. My post specifically mentions both the executive and legislative branch. The mandate exists because democrats barely hold power at the state level as well as federal. No mandate exists because of Trump. It comes from the fact republicans control 65% of all government seats.

Dems are notoriously terrible at getting people out for down ticket candidates. It doesn't mean there's a mandate. Reps are really skilled at riling their masses around a few issues, while Dems are not so focused. The left is more composed of a large set of smaller groups that work toward similar goals- such as women's equality, LGBTQ equality, racial equality, protections for minorities, social safety nets, etc. etc. We're a much less focused group than the Republicans who tend to be made up of older white men and women. Because of that lack of diversity, I think it's much easier for the Reps to be riled up into action via the few pet causes of the right- anti-abortion, anti-gun control, anti-lgbtq rights, anti-abortion, yadda yadda yadda. The right maintains pressure on its voters to be fearful and angry about these issues. While Dems have to gain and/or maintain traction among many different groups across many different ages. And Dems are TERRIBLE at controlling the conversation. Reps are really really good at it. Dems tend to try to appeal to your more rational side, or empathetic side- while Reps tend to appeal to your wallet and the promise of riches to come when taxes are reduced and illegals are deported so you can have your jobs back. And this republican campaign went even deeper and further than I've ever seen. The campaign did and the new administration continues to spew outright lies. It's so much easier to control the conversation when you can ignore reality and people just... believe you. Or they just don't care. Shit, with that kind of power and the backing of the republicans in the house, Trump can do anything.
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25-01-2017, 02:15 PM
RE: The Trump Assault on Freedom Begins
(25-01-2017 01:52 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(25-01-2017 01:42 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  They always have a mandate to the extent that "mandate" has now become completely devalued and devoid of meaning. Cheney said Bush had a mandate even though the Supreme Court had to give it to him while Obama never had a mandate even though he obliterated his opponents twice. This is how groupspeak works. Someone mentioned the term "post-truth" era. I'm gonna look into it because it feels about right.

That's why liberals keep losing everything else but excel at presidential campaigns. You guys only think about the presidency. My post specifically mentions both the executive and legislative branch. The mandate exists because democrats barely hold power at the state level as well as federal. No mandate exists because of Trump. It comes from the fact republicans control 65% of all government seats.

Nevertheless, a Republican Senator is supposed to represent everyone in his state, not just the Republicans. And a Republican Representative is supposed to represent everyone in his district, not just the Republicans. 51% of the people supporting you doesn't mean you can ignore the other 49%. This is not a "majority rules" society. Mandate my ass.
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25-01-2017, 02:15 PM
RE: The Trump Assault on Freedom Begins
(25-01-2017 02:11 PM)kineo Wrote:  
(25-01-2017 01:52 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  That's why liberals keep losing everything else but excel at presidential campaigns. You guys only think about the presidency. My post specifically mentions both the executive and legislative branch. The mandate exists because democrats barely hold power at the state level as well as federal. No mandate exists because of Trump. It comes from the fact republicans control 65% of all government seats.

Dems are notoriously terrible at getting people out for down ticket candidates. It doesn't mean there's a mandate. Reps are really skilled at riling their masses around a few issues, while Dems are not so focused. The left is more composed of a large set of smaller groups that work toward similar goals- such as women's equality, LGBTQ equality, racial equality, protections for minorities, social safety nets, etc. etc. We're a much less focused group than the Republicans who tend to be made up of older white men and women. Because of that lack of diversity, I think it's much easier for the Reps to be riled up into action via the few pet causes of the right- anti-abortion, anti-gun control, anti-lgbtq rights, anti-abortion, yadda yadda yadda. The right maintains pressure on its voters to be fearful and angry about these issues. While Dems have to gain and/or maintain traction among many different groups across many different ages. And Dems are TERRIBLE at controlling the conversation. Reps are really really good at it. Dems tend to try to appeal to your more rational side, or empathetic side- while Reps tend to appeal to your wallet and the promise of riches to come when taxes are reduced and illegals are deported so you can have your jobs back. And this republican campaign went even deeper and further than I've ever seen. The campaign did and the new administration continues to spew outright lies. It's so much easier to control the conversation when you can ignore reality and people just... believe you. Or they just don't care. Shit, with that kind of power and the backing of the republicans in the house, Trump can do anything.

I'll bet you'll be pleasantly surprised how many of Trumps "mandates" get shot down by Congress....

There's a lot of party loyalty --- but not so much for Trump - who's seen as an outsider by a large portion of the ( R ) crowd.

Conversely -- He'll probably veto some of Congress's plans - just for spite........

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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