The Trump Assault on Freedom Begins
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25-01-2017, 02:16 PM (This post was last modified: 25-01-2017 02:20 PM by Heath_Tierney.)
RE: The Trump Assault on Freedom Begins
(25-01-2017 02:11 PM)kineo Wrote:  Dems are notoriously terrible at getting people out for down ticket candidates. It doesn't mean there's a mandate. Reps are really skilled at riling their masses around a few issues, while Dems are not so focused.

This is SO very true. It's relatively easy to get low-information voters riled up over, well, lies. And since Trump is a master manipulator (also very easily manipulated - there's aMaster's-level psychology thesis for you) he and his alt-right overlords were successful, at least at the Electoral College level.

Facts don't win arguments (or elections, as we've now seen). Emotions win. Dems, as liberals, tend to be more focused on facts than Repubs. Source: Unconscious Reactions Separate Liberals and Conservatives.

Frankly, I think that's sad but it also happens to be reality.

Source: The Backfire Effect: Why Facts Don't Win Arguments
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25-01-2017, 02:18 PM
RE: The Trump Assault on Freedom Begins
(25-01-2017 02:15 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(25-01-2017 02:11 PM)kineo Wrote:  Dems are notoriously terrible at getting people out for down ticket candidates. It doesn't mean there's a mandate. Reps are really skilled at riling their masses around a few issues, while Dems are not so focused. The left is more composed of a large set of smaller groups that work toward similar goals- such as women's equality, LGBTQ equality, racial equality, protections for minorities, social safety nets, etc. etc. We're a much less focused group than the Republicans who tend to be made up of older white men and women. Because of that lack of diversity, I think it's much easier for the Reps to be riled up into action via the few pet causes of the right- anti-abortion, anti-gun control, anti-lgbtq rights, anti-abortion, yadda yadda yadda. The right maintains pressure on its voters to be fearful and angry about these issues. While Dems have to gain and/or maintain traction among many different groups across many different ages. And Dems are TERRIBLE at controlling the conversation. Reps are really really good at it. Dems tend to try to appeal to your more rational side, or empathetic side- while Reps tend to appeal to your wallet and the promise of riches to come when taxes are reduced and illegals are deported so you can have your jobs back. And this republican campaign went even deeper and further than I've ever seen. The campaign did and the new administration continues to spew outright lies. It's so much easier to control the conversation when you can ignore reality and people just... believe you. Or they just don't care. Shit, with that kind of power and the backing of the republicans in the house, Trump can do anything.

I'll bet you'll be pleasantly surprised how many of Trumps "mandates" get shot down by Congress....

There's a lot of party loyalty --- but not so much for Trump - who's seen as an outsider by a large portion of the ( R ) crowd.

Conversely -- He'll probably veto some of Congress's plans - just for spite........

True. And I'm sure there will be so tussle for power, but ultimately there's a lot of bad shit that they agree on.
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25-01-2017, 02:20 PM
RE: The Trump Assault on Freedom Begins
(25-01-2017 02:15 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(25-01-2017 01:52 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  That's why liberals keep losing everything else but excel at presidential campaigns. You guys only think about the presidency. My post specifically mentions both the executive and legislative branch. The mandate exists because democrats barely hold power at the state level as well as federal. No mandate exists because of Trump. It comes from the fact republicans control 65% of all government seats.

Nevertheless, a Republican Senator is supposed to represent everyone in his state, not just the Republicans. And a Republican Representative is supposed to represent everyone in his district, not just the Republicans. 51% of the people supporting you doesn't mean you can ignore the other 49%. This is not a "majority rules" society. Mandate my ass.

Yes, because those close numbers can and frequently do change.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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25-01-2017, 02:30 PM
RE: The Trump Assault on Freedom Begins
(25-01-2017 01:52 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  You guys only think about the presidency. My post specifically mentions both the executive and legislative branch. The mandate exists because democrats barely hold power at the state level as well as federal. No mandate exists because of Trump. It comes from the fact republicans control 65% of all government seats.

I'm not sure how many times I need to post my voter registration card showing you that I'm a voting-lifelong Registered for 35 fucking years. You were actually making a good point until you completely diminished it by making a stupid generalization based on a mistaken assumption that I have already corrected you on several times in this forum.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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25-01-2017, 02:51 PM
RE: The Trump Assault on Freedom Begins
(25-01-2017 02:30 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(25-01-2017 01:52 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  You guys only think about the presidency. My post specifically mentions both the executive and legislative branch. The mandate exists because democrats barely hold power at the state level as well as federal. No mandate exists because of Trump. It comes from the fact republicans control 65% of all government seats.

I'm not sure how many times I need to post my voter registration card showing you that I'm a voting-lifelong Registered for 35 fucking years. You were actually making a good point until you completely diminished it by making a stupid generalization based on a mistaken assumption that I have already corrected you on several times in this forum.

I've volunteered for and helped on 4 campaigns in the last 2 years. One was for a city council member, another for Florida State Congress, another for US Congress, and also for Hillary Clinton's campaign. Specifically when working with the Clinton campaign, they took great pains to ensure that they passed out information on down-ballot candidates and to encourage people to vote down-ballot.

Sooo yeah- Dems care about more than the presidency, but we are terrible at getting people out to vote.
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25-01-2017, 03:00 PM
RE: The Trump Assault on Freedom Begins
(25-01-2017 02:15 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(25-01-2017 01:52 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  That's why liberals keep losing everything else but excel at presidential campaigns. You guys only think about the presidency. My post specifically mentions both the executive and legislative branch. The mandate exists because democrats barely hold power at the state level as well as federal. No mandate exists because of Trump. It comes from the fact republicans control 65% of all government seats.

Nevertheless, a Republican Senator is supposed to represent everyone in his state, not just the Republicans. And a Republican Representative is supposed to represent everyone in his district, not just the Republicans. 51% of the people supporting you doesn't mean you can ignore the other 49%. This is not a "majority rules" society. Mandate my ass.

If it worked that way we wouldn't have political parties. When the dems had control they passed the ACA with ZERO republican votes.

"Elections have consequences." - Barack H. Obama

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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25-01-2017, 03:06 PM
RE: The Trump Assault on Freedom Begins
(25-01-2017 01:30 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Right now the voters are sending republicans to do their bidding. As long as they stay within constitutional bounds they are the boss.

Read these sentences in Emperor Palpatine's voice. Everything will make more sense.

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"Don't answer that. A rhetorical question."
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25-01-2017, 03:20 PM
RE: The Trump Assault on Freedom Begins
(24-01-2017 07:28 PM)Heath_Tierney Wrote:  Not satisfied with ordering the National Parks Service to stop tweeting, Trump and his band of sycophants is now muting employees in the Environmental Protection Agency and the departments of the Interior, Transportation, Agriculture and Health and Human Services.

Press Secretary Scott Spicer apparently wasn't informed of the news, saying, "I don't know that story."

Administration officials ordered all Department of Interior bureaus "to immediately cease use of government Twitter accounts".

Sources: http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/fe...own-234122

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics...-1.2954647

Even Fox is covering it: http://kdvr.com/2017/01/24/trump-adminis...-epa-usda/

I'm not too worried about this. There's no loyalty amongst thieves,

When I first started showing an interest in politics (age 6 or 7) I asked my dad about the red, blue and yellow teams.

He said that Conservatives (blue) promote the idea of the individual, Labour (red) focus on the collective (all of us) and the Liberals (yellow) are somewhere in the middle.

Once my dad had explained the concept of representation, I remember asking "Why would anyone vote for someone who only thinks of themselves?" (the "I'm alright, Jack" mentality).

"Exactly," my dad, the life-long socialist, replied.

So, no need to worry here. The new swamp-people will be faking loyalty to Trump while it's in their self-interest but they'll have one eye on that future career or retirement plan... the "tell all" book deal.

Some of them will already be seeking out discrete confidantes in the press to whom to leak the occasional 'personal insurance policy' message.

The quicker Trump starts firing people, the quicker truth will out.

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25-01-2017, 03:24 PM
RE: The Trump Assault on Freedom Begins
(25-01-2017 03:00 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(25-01-2017 02:15 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Nevertheless, a Republican Senator is supposed to represent everyone in his state, not just the Republicans. And a Republican Representative is supposed to represent everyone in his district, not just the Republicans. 51% of the people supporting you doesn't mean you can ignore the other 49%. This is not a "majority rules" society. Mandate my ass.

If it worked that way we wouldn't have political parties. When the dems had control they passed the ACA with ZERO republican votes.

"Elections have consequences." - Barack H. Obama

Quote:The newly amended bill eventually passed the House of Representatives at 11:19 PM EST on Saturday, November 7, 2009, by a vote of 220-215. The bill passed with support of the majority of Democrats, together with one Republican who voted only after the necessary 218 votes had already been cast. Thirty-nine Democrats voted against the bill. All members of the House voted, and none voted "present".

Facts - use them. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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25-01-2017, 03:38 PM
RE: The Trump Assault on Freedom Begins
(25-01-2017 03:00 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(25-01-2017 02:15 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Nevertheless, a Republican Senator is supposed to represent everyone in his state, not just the Republicans. And a Republican Representative is supposed to represent everyone in his district, not just the Republicans. 51% of the people supporting you doesn't mean you can ignore the other 49%. This is not a "majority rules" society. Mandate my ass.

If it worked that way we wouldn't have political parties. When the dems had control they passed the ACA with ZERO republican votes.

I'm talking about how it should work, not how it does work. As long as it works your way, the government is broken, and effectively doesn't "work" at all. It will start to work properly again when and if politicians remember that they serve the people -- all of the people, not just the ones who happen to support their agenda.
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