The Truth about Organic Farming
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06-10-2014, 09:37 PM
The Truth about Organic Farming

Quote:The majority of Americans believe that organic foods are healthier than food grown using conventional methods. The majority of Americans are wrong. Two systematic reviews, one from Stanford University and the other by a team of researchers based out of the United Kingdom, turned up no evidence that organic foods are more nutritious or lead to better health-related outcomes for consumers.

But the idea that organic foods are healthier isn't even the largest myth out there. That title belongs to the widely held belief that organic farming does not use pesticides. A 2010 poll found that 69% of consumers believe that to be true. Among those who regularly purchase organic food, the notion is even more prevalent. A survey from the Soil Association found that as many as 95% of organic consumers in the UK buy organic to "avoid pesticides."

In fact, organic farmers do use pesticides. The only difference is that they're "natural" instead of "synthetic." At face value, the labels make it sound like the products they describe are worlds apart, but they aren't. A pesticide, whether it's natural or not, is a chemical with the purpose of killing insects (or warding off animals, or destroying weeds, or mitigating any other kind of pest, as our watchful commenters have correctly pointed out). Sadly, however, "natural" pesticides aren't as effective, so organic farmers actually end up using more of them!*

Shockingly Buzzword does not equate to safer, more nutritious, or better tasting.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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06-10-2014, 09:46 PM
RE: The Truth about Organic Farming
Additionally, 'organic' farms do not exist in their own little world: every farm on the planet is goddamned organic.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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07-10-2014, 06:04 AM
RE: The Truth about Organic Farming
(06-10-2014 09:37 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
Quote:The majority of Americans believe that organic foods are healthier than food grown using conventional methods. The majority of Americans are wrong. Two systematic reviews, one from Stanford University and the other by a team of researchers based out of the United Kingdom, turned up no evidence that organic foods are more nutritious or lead to better health-related outcomes for consumers.

But the idea that organic foods are healthier isn't even the largest myth out there. That title belongs to the widely held belief that organic farming does not use pesticides. A 2010 poll found that 69% of consumers believe that to be true. Among those who regularly purchase organic food, the notion is even more prevalent. A survey from the Soil Association found that as many as 95% of organic consumers in the UK buy organic to "avoid pesticides."

In fact, organic farmers do use pesticides. The only difference is that they're "natural" instead of "synthetic." At face value, the labels make it sound like the products they describe are worlds apart, but they aren't. A pesticide, whether it's natural or not, is a chemical with the purpose of killing insects (or warding off animals, or destroying weeds, or mitigating any other kind of pest, as our watchful commenters have correctly pointed out). Sadly, however, "natural" pesticides aren't as effective, so organic farmers actually end up using more of them!*

Shockingly Buzzword does not equate to safer, more nutritious, or better tasting.

You hurtz my feelz! Angry

YOU ARE SO SO WRONG!1!!1! YOU THINKYOR SIENCE IS RITE - YOU JUST HAVE FAITH, TOO!!!1!

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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07-10-2014, 06:15 AM
RE: The Truth about Organic Farming
(07-10-2014 06:04 AM)Chas Wrote:  You hurtz my feelz! Angry

YOU ARE SO SO WRONG!1!!1! YOU THINKYOR SIENCE IS RITE - YOU JUST HAVE FAITH, TOO!!!1!

Houston, I think we broke him... Blink

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07-10-2014, 07:22 AM (This post was last modified: 07-10-2014 07:28 AM by Dom.)
RE: The Truth about Organic Farming
In this situation, you could liken my position to that of an agnostic.

I know that we can eat countless items that occur on this earth. My ancestors have eaten them for centuries and centuries. We have evolved to utilize them well and extract useful nutrients.

I know that there are items that are deadly to much smaller animals than us, and of which we would have to consume huge volumes to be affected. We have also been exposed to these for centuries and are well adapted to deal with them.

I know that everything gets eaten by something else (has natural enemies).

I know that food additives and their interactions with each other, as well as their effect on predispositions by individuals for human diseases have NOT been tested at all.

I consider pesticides as food additive, since you can't really wash them off effectively, and with GMO foods, they are intrinsic to the plant.

Hence, I take a much lesser risk with my health if I eat organic foods.

I take it even further and grow my own for the most part - which is where the taste comes in. I can grow varieties that are infinitely more flavorful than supermarket grade hybrids or GMOs, they will never be in supermarkets because they have fragile skins or do not ripen up when separated from the mother plant. I get to get superior flavor because I use varieties developed for flavor for centuries, and I get to eat them at the perfectly ripened stage.

There is no proof that food additives cause cancer (except in the case of some coloring additives, which are still in use in the US) because nobody has a financial interest in conducting studies regarding this. The lack of studies is very disconcerting to me. What studies we do have are financed by the producers of crops that contain additives, or convenience foods with additives. Nothing objective that I have seen.

I value my health, the older you get the more you do that. Hence I shy away from things that may have unknown effects on it. Not to mention that I love good flavors....

I don't even use organic pesticides, they lose effectiveness fairly soon and I reserve this in case I ever get a catastrophe in my garden. So far non use of killing agents has allowed the good bugs to proliferate enough to reduce the bad bugs to a negligible number. All is well in my garden and with my health, and I love the tastes of my food.

I am not saying that any food additives or GMOs are necessarily bad for your health, I am saying we don't know. Show me studies of interactions between additives, long term use of additives and interactions of additives with known health issues of individuals, and I will change my mind.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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07-10-2014, 07:55 AM
RE: The Truth about Organic Farming
(07-10-2014 07:22 AM)Dom Wrote:  In this situation, you could liken my position to that of an agnostic.

I know that we can eat countless items that occur on this earth. My ancestors have eaten them for centuries and centuries. We have evolved to utilize them well and extract useful nutrients.

I know that there are items that are deadly to much smaller animals than us, and of which we would have to consume huge volumes to be affected. We have also been exposed to these for centuries and are well adapted to deal with them.

I know that everything gets eaten by something else (has natural enemies).

I know that food additives and their interactions with each other, as well as their effect on predispositions by individuals for human diseases have NOT been tested at all.

I consider pesticides as food additive, since you can't really wash them off effectively, and with GMO foods, they are intrinsic to the plant.

Hence, I take a much lesser risk with my health if I eat organic foods.

I take it even further and grow my own for the most part - which is where the taste comes in. I can grow varieties that are infinitely more flavorful than supermarket grade hybrids or GMOs, they will never be in supermarkets because they have fragile skins or do not ripen up when separated from the mother plant. I get to get superior flavor because I use varieties developed for flavor for centuries, and I get to eat them at the perfectly ripened stage.

There is no proof that food additives cause cancer (except in the case of some coloring additives, which are still in use in the US) because nobody has a financial interest in conducting studies regarding this. The lack of studies is very disconcerting to me. What studies we do have are financed by the producers of crops that contain additives, or convenience foods with additives. Nothing objective that I have seen.

I value my health, the older you get the more you do that. Hence I shy away from things that may have unknown effects on it. Not to mention that I love good flavors....

I don't even use organic pesticides, they lose effectiveness fairly soon and I reserve this in case I ever get a catastrophe in my garden. So far non use of killing agents has allowed the good bugs to proliferate enough to reduce the bad bugs to a negligible number. All is well in my garden and with my health, and I love the tastes of my food.

I am not saying that any food additives or GMOs are necessarily bad for your health, I am saying we don't know. Show me studies of interactions between additives, long term use of additives and interactions of additives with known health issues of individuals, and I will change my mind.

That is a well thought out, rational, conservative approach. Yes

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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07-10-2014, 07:56 AM (This post was last modified: 07-10-2014 08:08 AM by Free Thought.)
RE: The Truth about Organic Farming
(07-10-2014 07:22 AM)Dom Wrote:  Hence, I take a much lesser risk with my health if I eat organic foods.

I would be very concerned if the food you were eating was not organic.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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07-10-2014, 08:04 AM
RE: The Truth about Organic Farming
Nice! I've been dodging overpriced food items with no proven benefit (aka "organic" foods) for years. From time to time I run into a friend who sings the praises of organic, but still I've never been convinced it's worth the extra dollar.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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07-10-2014, 08:52 AM (This post was last modified: 07-10-2014 10:43 AM by Mathilda.)
RE: The Truth about Organic Farming
I try to eat only organic foods where possible. I normally stay away from these conversations though because it's often started by people trying to convince themselves that their desire not to spend extra money on organic food can be rationally justified and don't want to think that they may be wrong. If someone doesn't want to eat organic food then that's their choice. I just resent them trying to convince me that I am a fool to make themselves feel better about their own decisions. I notice that vegetarians come in for a lot of stick for the same reason.

Basically what Dom said applies to me as well. In short I want to reduce the risk to my health by minimising my exposure to chemicals where possible. And not just with food. If you use a cleaning product when mopping a floor, then it dries off, you have a nice shiny floor but the dust you breathe in will still contain those chemicals. For me it all comes down to probability.

How many different chemicals are used to reduce costs in manufacturing, how much of it is consumed and retained in the body, how many of them are carcinogenic and what is the probability of it causing different forms of cancer or other ailments over several decades?

Health is one of these things that you take for granted yet is a major factor regarding the quality of your life. When you fall ill or have an accident then most people are prepared to spend a lot of money to get their health back, so why not spend a little more money sooner rather than later to maintain your good health in the first place? Especially when you consider that you have to maintain your health well into your old age.

I also grow my own food where possible. Although for the last three years all I have had is a balcony and so have only been able to grow chillies. But all my organic kitchen waste is kept, fed to worms or composted down and used for growing vegetables when I do have space (i.e. next year).
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07-10-2014, 10:35 AM
RE: The Truth about Organic Farming
If there was any reliable evidence that eating organic fruits and vegetables over "non-organically grown" was actually beneficial in a significant way, I'd be all for it Smile. And I totally support growing your own food. I'd like to do that as well.

Saying
Matilda Wrote:it's often started by people trying to convince themselves that their desire not to spend extra money on organic food can be rationally justified and don't want to think that they may be wrong.
Sounds like something that can easily be applied to either side of the argument. No?

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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