The US health care plan
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19-09-2017, 05:11 PM
RE: The US health care plan
There's no healthcare plan at the moment. Except what Sanders is putting out.

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19-09-2017, 05:13 PM
RE: The US health care plan
(19-09-2017 05:11 PM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:  There's no healthcare plan at the moment. Except what Sanders is putting out.

The republicans are sequestered today trying to pass something.... something that isn't good....

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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19-09-2017, 05:26 PM
RE: The US health care plan
Thoreauvian, I would pay better attention to my sources. The Hoover Institute is well known to be very conservative, it is after all named for that great president Herbert. The other institution I know nothing about.

Note also that it is an editorial from the NYT, for my mind a very establishment newspaper.

I must also say that with any single payer system the devil will be in the details. But, when you look at the immense profits in health care without much benefit for the public something dramatic must be done. I think single payer is it.
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20-09-2017, 11:48 AM
RE: The US health care plan
http://www.politico.com/interactives/201...d-to-know/

Republicans are at it again, and they are doing it VERY quietly.

"If you don't have a seat at the table, you're probably on the menu."

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20-09-2017, 12:09 PM
RE: The US health care plan
(19-09-2017 05:26 PM)JAH Wrote:  Thoreauvian, I would pay better attention to my sources. The Hoover Institute is well known to be very conservative, it is after all named for that great president Herbert. The other institution I know nothing about.

Note also that it is an editorial from the NYT, for my mind a very establishment newspaper.

I must also say that with any single payer system the devil will be in the details. But, when you look at the immense profits in health care without much benefit for the public something dramatic must be done. I think single payer is it.

I'm certainly leaning toward single-payer myself, but costs must be brought under control as well, as the article pointed out.

Do you have any specific criticisms of the article, aside from who wrote it and where it appeared?
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20-09-2017, 12:19 PM (This post was last modified: 20-09-2017 12:26 PM by epronovost.)
RE: The US health care plan
(20-09-2017 12:09 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  
(19-09-2017 05:26 PM)JAH Wrote:  Thoreauvian, I would pay better attention to my sources. The Hoover Institute is well known to be very conservative, it is after all named for that great president Herbert. The other institution I know nothing about.

Note also that it is an editorial from the NYT, for my mind a very establishment newspaper.

I must also say that with any single payer system the devil will be in the details. But, when you look at the immense profits in health care without much benefit for the public something dramatic must be done. I think single payer is it.

I'm certainly leaning toward single-payer myself, but costs must be brought under control as well, as the article pointed out.

Do you have any specific criticisms of the article, aside from who wrote it and where it appeared?

One of the main problem and cause of the rising cost of healthcare is the rise in life expectancy. Old people are much more vulnerable and need much more care than young people. In 1990, in Canada, the life expectancy was of 77 years old while now it has reached 82 years old. Those five years might not seem like much but this represent a rise of almost 20% in the period of high vulnerability for human being to disease, injuries and cancers (as well as a host of degenerative issues from joint pain to loss of bone mass). The problem of very performant healthcare is that it feed one of the major source of its own rising cost.

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20-09-2017, 02:05 PM
RE: The US health care plan
(19-09-2017 08:05 AM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  
(31-08-2017 03:42 PM)Dom Wrote:  I think it will all eventually end up with a one payer plan - but not just yet.

Here's an interesting article about why the single payer plan may not work as well as some believe:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/19/opini...&smtyp=cur

I believe healthcare is a human right, so I've been supporting Sanders and his single-payer ever since I followed his 2016 campaign. But after further research I have realized that other systems may be better, much better. Sanders' shoddily written bill didn't help reassure me about single payer either.

Of course, I would take his Medicare For All over literally anything the insurance companies, er, I mean, GOP puts out.
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20-09-2017, 02:06 PM
RE: The US health care plan
(20-09-2017 12:19 PM)epronovost Wrote:  
(20-09-2017 12:09 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  I'm certainly leaning toward single-payer myself, but costs must be brought under control as well, as the article pointed out.

Do you have any specific criticisms of the article, aside from who wrote it and where it appeared?

One of the main problem and cause of the rising cost of healthcare is the rise in life expectancy. Old people are much more vulnerable and need much more care than young people. In 1990, in Canada, the life expectancy was of 77 years old while now it has reached 82 years old. Those five years might not seem like much but this represent a rise of almost 20% in the period of high vulnerability for human being to disease, injuries and cancers (as well as a host of degenerative issues from joint pain to loss of bone mass). The problem of very performant healthcare is that it feed one of the major source of its own rising cost.

Well, cancer costs the same at age 77 as it costs at age 82. As you near your expiration date your body deteriorates, whether this happens at age 77 or 82. The deterioration lasts some 10 years from what I see, and it doesn't matter which decade. Old people usually die slowly, going through a series of malfunctions. Whether that is at age 77 or 82 makes no difference. When the average age was 77, people didn't just walk along and suddenly drop dead either.

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20-09-2017, 03:19 PM
RE: The US health care plan
Thoreauvian, Yes I do. Costs are high because there are too many insurance companies and their various CEO's making obscene amounts of money. There are too many drug companies that gouge their clients. The same companies that charge one amount in countries where they are somewhat regulated charge what they want in the US. Witness that asshole who bought a drug company so that he could jack up the price of an important drug that it had a patent on something like 7000%.

And the article mentions that the US is a world leader in health care innovation, pretending that has something to do with private provision of health care. Although industry does spend more than the government it is not entirely their expenditures that drive that. I would also add that some of industries expenditure is only to modify existing drugs slightly so that then they can get a new patent.

I cannot remember where I saw it or heard it (so you must take this with a grain of salt) but apparently a significant number of the highest paid CEO's are those of health care companies.
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20-09-2017, 11:51 PM
RE: The US health care plan
Thoreauvian, Oddly enough I was just reading letters to the editor in today's NYT. There are 4 letters there that discuss the Chen and Weinberg editorial. All 4 are a negative reaction to the sense of the editorial. All 4 from different perspectives. I think that that somewhat validates my point. It also indicates that the newspaper I have called the capitalist funny papers can be somewhat schizophrenic at times.

And no I do not subscribe. My wife does because she enjoys the cross word puzzles.
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