The US health care plan
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28-07-2017, 12:24 PM
RE: The US health care plan
(28-07-2017 11:08 AM)ResidentEvilFan Wrote:  Has Trumpy turned back to bashing McCain?

Dunno, but the bigliest leader called him on the phone just before the vote, and all kinds of republicans cornered him and had "talks".

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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28-07-2017, 01:23 PM
RE: The US health care plan
(28-07-2017 10:31 AM)Dom Wrote:  It's just ridiculous though to have to go through such contortions for people to realize what the civilized world has known for decades. Looks like it will take a bunch more time to finish re-inventing the wheel.

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28-07-2017, 04:08 PM
RE: The US health care plan
One provider, lots of telemedicine. That's what we need.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telemedicine

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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28-07-2017, 04:15 PM
RE: The US health care plan
(28-07-2017 04:08 PM)Dom Wrote:  One provider, lots of telemedicine. That's what we need.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telemedicine

Tried one of these telemed things last year when I knew I had a sinus infection...I have a history of them so I know the symptoms. You have to have symptoms for ten days before they will prescribe an antibiotic...ten damn days of misery before you can start taking meds to get better and that will take even more time. Now I know to lie about when the symptoms started. Dodgy

Somewhere along the line the medical community decided that everyone should be treated the same and suffering must be prolonged when possible.

I now keep a stash of antibiotics from overseas on hand.

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28-07-2017, 04:32 PM
RE: The US health care plan
(28-07-2017 04:15 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(28-07-2017 04:08 PM)Dom Wrote:  One provider, lots of telemedicine. That's what we need.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telemedicine

Tried one of these telemed things last year when I knew I had a sinus infection...I have a history of them so I know the symptoms. You have to have symptoms for ten days before they will prescribe an antibiotic...ten damn days of misery before you can start taking meds to get better and that will take even more time. Now I know to lie about when the symptoms started. Dodgy

Somewhere along the line the medical community decided that everyone should be treated the same and suffering must be prolonged when possible.

I now keep a stash of antibiotics from overseas on hand.

Properly developed (it's in it's infancy) telemedicine could be really great.

It could be a lot more individualized. Medicine is moving more and more towards individualization anyway, more and more treatments are being developed that take DNA and various personal traits into full account.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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28-07-2017, 07:46 PM
RE: The US health care plan
I heard one reporter today say that what McCain really did was take the heat off of a couple of other senators who wanted to vote "no" but who would have been primaried by tea-bagger shitheads if they did so. Once there were 3 votes against they did not need to bounce the rubble. McCain took one for his friends.
Nothing more.

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28-07-2017, 07:54 PM
RE: The US health care plan
(28-07-2017 07:46 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  I heard one reporter today say that what McCain really did was take the heat off of a couple of other senators who wanted to vote "no" but who would have been primaried by tea-bagger shitheads if they did so. Once there were 3 votes against they did not need to bounce the rubble. McCain took one for his friends.
Nothing more.

Actually, we have no idea what motivated him to stand up to pressure from Trump and the party. Lest we send the thought police over there. And it really doesn't matter, what matters is that he stood up to them.

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29-07-2017, 03:23 AM
RE: The US health care plan
I found this in the comment section of reddit politics and I think it's worth reading. It's from someone named zzzzzzzzz414

I'm not sure if it's really being appreciated just how comprehensively the Republicans were just fucked over.
See, the Republicans have been trying to pass these godawful healthcare bills through a process called budget reconciliation, which, among other things, protects the bill from being filibustered in the Senate and only requires a simple majority of 50 votes (rather than 60, which the Republicans don't have).
The thing is, the Senate can only consider one budget reconciliation bill per topic per year. Of course, if the bill dies in committee and never comes to an official vote, it doesn't count- which is why they've been able to keep hammering away at the issue.
This bill, though, was allowed to come to the Senate floor, because the Republicans thought they'd secured the votes. Collins, Murkowski and the Democrats would vote no, everyone else would vote yes, and Pence would break the tie. And then McCain completely fucked them. And it was almost certainly a calculated move; he voted to allow the bill to come to the floor. Had McCain allowed it to die in committee, McConnell could have come back with yet another repeal bill; but he let it come to a vote, and now they can't consider another budget reconciliation bill for the rest of the fiscal year. The Senate needs 60 votes to pass any kind of healthcare reform now.
So now they're caught between a rock and a hard place. Either they concede defeat on the issue and try again later (causing a big, unpopular stink that could damage elections if they try it before the midterms, or risking losing the slim majority they already have if they wait) or they actually sit down with the democrats like adults and write a halfway decent healthcare bill.
This is amazing.


He/she went on with an edit explaining more.

EDIT: Clearing up some things about budget reconciliation and what "topics" means.
From this article:
Under Senate interpretations of the Congressional Budget Act, the Senate can consider the three basic subjects of reconciliation — SPENDING, REVENUES and DEBT LIMIT — in a single bill or multiple bills, but it can consider each of these three in only one bill per year (unless Congress passes a second budget resolution). Consequently, in the Senate there can be a maximum of three reconciliation bills in a year, one for each of the basic subjects of reconciliation.
This rule is most significant if the first reconciliation bill that the Senate takes up affects both spending and revenues. Even if that bill is overwhelmingly devoted to only one of those subjects, no subsequent reconciliation bill can affect either revenues or spending because the first bill already addressed them.
Emphasis mine. Budget reconciliation wasn't actually meant to be used for healthcare bills, it's meant to be used for, well, budgetary concerns. They're forcing a square peg in a round hole by arguing that the funding and tax portions of the ACA fall under "budget legislation", so that makes things a bit weird. The ACA repeal bill would, I believe, affect the "spending" and "revenues" subjects; so they've now basically blown their chance at passing anything else through reconciliation this fiscal year.

(someone please correct me if any of this is wrong/inaccurate)


Very interesting post, I think. John McCain did a noble thing.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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29-07-2017, 06:44 AM
RE: The US health care plan
(28-07-2017 10:54 AM)Minimalist Wrote:  Full disclosure: I have lived in Arizona for 12 years, through two senate elections and the 2008 presidential run and have never voted for McCain. In fact, the only time I did vote for him was in 2000 in the NY Primary when he was running against that tit-turd Bush. "Maverick" my ass. He was just another republicunt.

Still, I was reasonably impressed with his vote last night until this morning when I read a statement he released:

Quote:"From the beginning, I have believed that Obamacare should be repealed and replaced with a solution that increases competition, lowers costs, and improves care for the American people," McCain said in a statement after the bill failed in a 49 to 51 early morning vote.

"The so-called 'skinny repeal' amendment the Senate voted on today would not accomplish those goals," he continued.

That's magical thinking. Increasing competition - why should that be a goal? - will not lower costs or improve care. What we saw before the ACA was passed was that insurance companies colluded to maximize their profits and discard anyone who would cost them a lot of money in claims. Insurance companies are middlemen who pull money out of the system and offer no value to it.

We need to take the profit motive out of health care and the idea that our current crop of republicunt shits will do that is simply a pipe dream. McCain is as delusional as the rest. His action was not heroic. It was Quixotic.
I never got why a single payer gov option addition to the insurence companies isn't an idea they want yet all they say is increase competition all the time... yeah having anyone able to directly choose gov plans over companies would increase the competition. That's a thing that directly does open the goals they say they seek in that way.

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29-07-2017, 09:55 AM (This post was last modified: 29-07-2017 09:58 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: The US health care plan
(28-07-2017 07:54 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(28-07-2017 07:46 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  I heard one reporter today say that what McCain really did was take the heat off of a couple of other senators who wanted to vote "no" but who would have been primaried by tea-bagger shitheads if they did so. Once there were 3 votes against they did not need to bounce the rubble. McCain took one for his friends.
Nothing more.

Actually, we have no idea what motivated him to stand up to pressure from Trump and the party. Lest we send the thought police over there. And it really doesn't matter, what matters is that he stood up to them.

McCain did what he said he was gonna do on Tuesday. Vote to proceed so he could vote against.

(29-07-2017 03:23 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Under Senate interpretations of the Congressional Budget Act, the Senate can consider the three basic subjects of reconciliation — SPENDING, REVENUES and DEBT LIMIT — in a single bill or multiple bills, but it can consider each of these three in only one bill per year (unless Congress passes a second budget resolution). Consequently, in the Senate there can be a maximum of three reconciliation bills in a year, one for each of the basic subjects of reconciliation.
...
Very interesting post, I think. John McCain did a noble thing.

He told them this is exactly what he was going to do on Tuesday. What surprises me is they didn't take a dying American hero at his word.

#sigh
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