The US health care plan
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14-10-2017, 10:41 PM
RE: The US health care plan
(14-10-2017 10:07 AM)BnW Wrote:  There are no easy solutions to healthcare but I personally favor a Canadian type of system where you have private providers, a public single payer system, and the ability to buy augmented private insurance. The Canadian system is far from perfect, but it is leaps and bounds better than what we have.

Of course there are easy solutions - just look at any other civilized country's system and do that. Thumbsup

I like what the Swiss have done.

expatica Wrote:The Swiss healthcare system is universal but it is administered by individual cantons. ... Unlike other European countries, the Swiss healthcare system is not tax-based or financed by employers but is paid for by the individual through contributions into Swiss health insurance schemes.

Every insurance company in Switzerland must offer (and deliver) an insurance plan with a minimum government-mandated coverage at a government-mandated price if they want to do business.
They are free to offer any other plans at any price, as well.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-10-2017, 05:56 PM
RE: The US health care plan
I'm ok with a Swiss type system too but I think in the US you are going to find no shortage of people who can't afford it and are subsidized, and we will end up with some of the same problems we have now.

The root cause problem in the US is the idea that we need a 3rd party for-profit entity in the middle of every single transaction between a patient and a doctor. That's the problem and is what is driving costs up past the point of reasonableness. It's not insurance anymore, it's just a payment administration scheme with a money making entity making the payments. If insurance was really insurance, and something you carried for unexpected medical needs or something that is very expensive - like surgery or cancer treatment - and you just paid your doctor for normal visits the way you pay for any other transaction, the costs would be more in line with basic reality. But, do to some great lobbying in the late 60s and early 70s, we threw that type of system away and now we have our current financial fiasco.

The US system is an absolute fucking nightmare. And, forget all this bullshit about it being "the best health care system in the world". It is -- for those who can pay for access. For those who can't, it's a giant fuck you.

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16-10-2017, 06:12 PM
RE: The US health care plan
I think it's the cost that's the problem.

My daughter just turned 18 and is finding out the hard way. No joke, one emergency room visit with no medical insurance. $4,500 for less than 90 minutes. Met with doctor. Sent to radiology. Ultrasound. Sent back downstairs. Wait 45 minutes for Dr. to tell her she has a kidney stone and it will pass on it's own. $4,500 fucking dollars for that?

Now she has collection companies sending her letters.

Nowhere other than America are doctors making that much money a year. I think I read somewhere that an American doctor makes 2-3 times as much as a doctor in France.

It shouldn't cost $2,000 for a 5 minute ultrasound. And it shouldn't cost $2,000 for a doctor to write down your symptoms, look at the ultrasound results and tell you that you have a kidney stone. The doctor did maybe 7 minutes worth of work and the hospital took $2,000 just for that.

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16-10-2017, 06:23 PM
RE: The US health care plan
(16-10-2017 06:12 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I think it's the cost that's the problem.

My daughter just turned 18 and is finding out the hard way. No joke, one emergency room visit with no medical insurance. $4,500 for less than 90 minutes. Met with doctor. Sent to radiology. Ultrasound. Sent back downstairs. Wait 45 minutes for Dr. to tell her she has a kidney stone and it will pass on it's own. $4,500 fucking dollars for that?

Now she has collection companies sending her letters.

Nowhere other than America are doctors making that much money a year. I think I read somewhere that an American doctor makes 2-3 times as much as a doctor in France.

It shouldn't cost $2,000 for a 5 minute ultrasound. And it shouldn't cost $2,000 for a doctor to write down your symptoms, look at the ultrasound results and tell you that you have a kidney stone. The doctor did maybe 7 minutes worth of work and the hospital took $2,000 just for that.

The problem is that because most people have insurance people don't care about the cost because insurance covers it. So people go in and provide demand for things (not to mention what are you going to do? cure your own cancer?) and so hospitals make a shit ton of dosh with jacked up prices because the people forking the bill aren't the ones using the product.

As a result the insurance companies increase their premiums (and don't really care about healthcosts because they're already making a shit ton of money any increased costs they get they just pass onto the consumer) and so health insurance costs a shit ton. But of course, everyone blames in the government or insurance companies for that. And so, in the end, everyone is fucked. People without insurance have to pay ridiculous prices and people with insurance have to pay ridiculous insurance prices.

It's why you need socialized healthcare.
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16-10-2017, 06:34 PM (This post was last modified: 16-10-2017 06:41 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: The US health care plan
(16-10-2017 06:12 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I think it's the cost that's the problem.

My daughter just turned 18 and is finding out the hard way. No joke, one emergency room visit with no medical insurance. $4,500 for less than 90 minutes. Met with doctor. Sent to radiology. Ultrasound. Sent back downstairs. Wait 45 minutes for Dr. to tell her she has a kidney stone and it will pass on it's own. $4,500 fucking dollars for that?

Why is your daughter not covered by your health plan at 18 yo? Obamacare changed the law so kids are covered by their parents' health care plan until they're 26. .... I think you just make shit up. Either that, or you're a horrible father. .... Probably both. ... You don't even have an 18 yo daughter do you.

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16-10-2017, 06:48 PM
RE: The US health care plan
(16-10-2017 06:23 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(16-10-2017 06:12 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I think it's the cost that's the problem.

My daughter just turned 18 and is finding out the hard way. No joke, one emergency room visit with no medical insurance. $4,500 for less than 90 minutes. Met with doctor. Sent to radiology. Ultrasound. Sent back downstairs. Wait 45 minutes for Dr. to tell her she has a kidney stone and it will pass on it's own. $4,500 fucking dollars for that?

Now she has collection companies sending her letters.

Nowhere other than America are doctors making that much money a year. I think I read somewhere that an American doctor makes 2-3 times as much as a doctor in France.

It shouldn't cost $2,000 for a 5 minute ultrasound. And it shouldn't cost $2,000 for a doctor to write down your symptoms, look at the ultrasound results and tell you that you have a kidney stone. The doctor did maybe 7 minutes worth of work and the hospital took $2,000 just for that.

The problem is that because most people have insurance people don't care about the cost because insurance covers it. So people go in and provide demand for things (not to mention what are you going to do? cure your own cancer?) and so hospitals make a shit ton of dosh with jacked up prices because the people forking the bill aren't the ones using the product.

As a result the insurance companies increase their premiums (and don't really care about healthcosts because they're already making a shit ton of money any increased costs they get they just pass onto the consumer) and so health insurance costs a shit ton. But of course, everyone blames in the government or insurance companies for that. And so, in the end, everyone is fucked. People without insurance have to pay ridiculous prices and people with insurance have to pay ridiculous insurance prices.

It's why you need socialized healthcare.

Even with insurance, many Americans are smacked with high costs after doctors' visits. You never know what's covered under the plan and what's going to show up in your mailbox a few weeks later.

A visit last year to the ER for me--despite my having a "good" health insurance plan through a Fortune 500 company--cost nothing that day...but over the next few weeks, we got bill after bill that eventually totaled more than $600 out of pocket. This was for a trip to the ER that lasted approximately 25 minutes in total. My medical care that day: a couple of x-rays, a doctor palpating my foot for 30 seconds, and a nurse who did 45 seconds of standard vital sign recording and a one-minute history for why I was there.

And our monthly premium payment to the health insurance plan at that time was more than $600/month, with the extra $600+ in extra fees added on top of it.

Yes, we need socialized healthcare.
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16-10-2017, 07:02 PM
RE: The US health care plan
(16-10-2017 06:12 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I think it's the cost that's the problem.

My daughter just turned 18 and is finding out the hard way. No joke, one emergency room visit with no medical insurance. $4,500 for less than 90 minutes. Met with doctor. Sent to radiology. Ultrasound. Sent back downstairs. Wait 45 minutes for Dr. to tell her she has a kidney stone and it will pass on it's own. $4,500 fucking dollars for that?

Now she has collection companies sending her letters.

Nowhere other than America are doctors making that much money a year. I think I read somewhere that an American doctor makes 2-3 times as much as a doctor in France.

It shouldn't cost $2,000 for a 5 minute ultrasound. And it shouldn't cost $2,000 for a doctor to write down your symptoms, look at the ultrasound results and tell you that you have a kidney stone. The doctor did maybe 7 minutes worth of work and the hospital took $2,000 just for that.

And if this is real, she won't pay because she doesn't have the money. Who will pay? Us. This is so stupid because we all pay for it one way or another, and it's super expensive because third parties are involved and skim money off the top. Just stupid!

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16-10-2017, 07:13 PM
RE: The US health care plan
(14-10-2017 10:41 PM)Chas Wrote:  I like what the Swiss have done.

expatica Wrote:The Swiss healthcare system is universal but it is administered by individual cantons. ... Unlike other European countries, the Swiss healthcare system is not tax-based or financed by employers but is paid for by the individual through contributions into Swiss health insurance schemes.

I think Denmark's model is a better fit for the US.

There is but one truly serious philosophical problem. - Camus
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16-10-2017, 07:20 PM
RE: The US health care plan
(16-10-2017 07:02 PM)Dom Wrote:  And if this is real, she won't pay because she doesn't have the money.

It's not true. He's a fucking liar. He's always been a fucking liar. How to get or stay on a parent’s plan

"You can stay on a parent’s plan until you turn 26

Once you’re on a parent’s job-based plan, in most cases you can stay on it until you turn 26.

Generally, you can join a parent’s plan and stay on until you turn 26 even if you:

Get married
Have or adopt a child
Start or leave school
Live in or out of your parent’s home
Aren’t claimed as a tax dependent
Turn down an offer of job-based coverage"

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16-10-2017, 07:22 PM
 
RE: The US health care plan
(16-10-2017 07:20 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(16-10-2017 07:02 PM)Dom Wrote:  And if this is real, she won't pay because she doesn't have the money.

It's not true. He's a fucking liar. How to get or stay on a parent’s plan

You can stay on a parent’s plan until you turn 26

Once you’re on a parent’s job-based plan, in most cases you can stay on it until you turn 26.

Generally, you can join a parent’s plan and stay on until you turn 26 even if you:

Get married
Have or adopt a child
Start or leave school
Live in or out of your parent’s home
Aren’t claimed as a tax dependent
Turn down an offer of job-based coverage

But he has to have insurance for this to even be an option.
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