The US is #1!
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17-01-2013, 03:16 PM
Re: RE: The US is #1!
(17-01-2013 02:06 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  
(17-01-2013 02:03 PM)TheBlackKnight Wrote:  Sarcasm is a good deflection.
Or a good tactic against arrogant polemics. All a matter of perspective really.

Re-branding and relativism is another good one.
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17-01-2013, 03:37 PM
RE: The US is #1!
Arrogance is a good buffer.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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18-01-2013, 12:02 AM
RE: The US is #1!
(17-01-2013 03:13 PM)TheBlackKnight Wrote:  
(17-01-2013 02:58 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  We have the most wasteful military in the world.

Both of you are correct.
Duh!

Bucky Ball Wrote:We have the most wasteful military in the world. You already can live
anywhere in the world you want, if you are educated. Most countries,
(non-Islamic are FAR more advanced in the area of gay rights, and
acceptance), who gives a crap about crappy US TV, you can smoke MJ
aywhere in the world. The US is extremely violent and are FAR more
likely to die from gun violence here, than anywhere in the developed
world. The situation with guns in the US is only our shame. It's off the
charts horrific. Edit: If the upper middle class parents in Sandy Hook
lived anywhere else in the world, their little kids would not be dead.

On gay marriage and weed I was refuting an earlier statement. It is not illegal in America, illegal in the majority of America, but not illegal in America...well you could certainly make that argument for the weed, but that's a messy situation that I won't delve into here. As for you claim that you can smoke MJ anywhere in the world, uh cite your source man. It's illegal pretty much everywhere outside of a couple of US states. It's decriminalized in a few countries, but it's illegal pretty much everywhere. As far as gun violence goes, yeah we have higher gun violence than in places where guns are illegal, but I'd wager our knife violence is lower, and even so I'd rather have the right to own a gun and accept a higher risk from getting shot, the odds are still very low of you getting shot. Obviously we disagree on guns, where you see a con, I see a pro so lets just that that alone in this thread. If you want to debate there I'm pretty sure a few threads in the politics section are a better place for that. America isn't some terrible place, it has it's pro's and con's just like every other western country. If it weren't we wouldn't have people immagrating from across the world. Oh, forgot to address TV/Movies...yeah a lot of it's shit, but I'd still ague we still have the best TV...I may agree with you on movies, but the majority of people wouldn't.

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20-01-2013, 11:02 PM
RE: The US is #1!
Alright, I'll finally bother to bite back.

Quote:We have the best military.

You spend the most on military, doesn't mean you have the BEST military. NK has the largest standing army in the world for example. As has been said, you certainly have the most wasteful military.
You spend something like 10% (could be 5%, can't remember) of your GDP on military spending. All other western countries spend 2.5% at most, with the majority spending less then that.
Not to mention that considering the UK's diplomacy with the US, if I live in the UK, I could safely assume that the US armed forces would defend my ass too, but at least I don't pay for it.
Also need I mention the abomination that is don't ask don't tell which took you till September 2011 to get rid of?
In times when you are lowering the standard of requirements to those with past convictions and such, you were at the same time discharging 10,000 perfectly good gay men from the armed forces. Also, I was not aware that sexual orientation played an effect on ones job performance.. The US should be embarrassed by that shit. I wouldn't be like, "hey, look our awesome army" if I was you.

Quote:We have the second or third largest country in the world so you can live in any climate you wish.

If I live in the common wealth getting a visa to another country within the commonwealth is easier, especially if I have a UK passport. I'm sure travel in the EU is also very easy.

Quote:We have the most free gun laws of any developed nation.

And the most gun related violence and the highest gun murder rate to boot.

Quote:We have the best software development in the world

Questionable. You clearly haven't seen some of the shit coming out of Japan..

Quote:We have the most popular television programming and movies in the world.

Actually I believe Bollywood has surpassed Hollywood.
And 'Idol' and 'X Factor' etc.. hardly can be counted as 'TV'.
Where's the quality?

And besides, I'm sure Chinese TV is more popular.

Quote:Despite earlier claims, gay marriage is allowed in several states

SOME being key word. By the time every western country legalizes it, the US will finally have it legalized everywhere.

[q]and marijuana is legal in a couple of states and growing, no other western country has legalized marijuana that I know of.[/q]

Again, SOME states. Several countries have lax laws in regards to weed, particularly middle east/India where it's a religious/cultural thing.
But again, by the time the US makes it legal in all the states, the rest of the western world would have legalized it years prior.

Quote:and it is almost certainly a reaction to the pride and feeling of superiority felt by many Americans IMHO.

Not quite, replace pride with ignorance and you're spot on.
You're not superior yet because you'll are so indoctrinated with patriotism fueled by not-entire-truth-teaching of your history the ignorance continues to grow.

Quote:America is still one of the 'Great Nations' in my opinion, and other nations deserve credit where credit is due as well.

No doubt it is still a "Great Nation". But at one point in time it use to be thee Great Nation.
America's time as the greatest country, like all great countries before it, is coming to an end. We/you are on the downward slope.

I don't talk gay, I don't walk gay, it's like people don't even know I'm gay unless I'm blowing them.
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21-01-2013, 08:34 PM
RE: The US is #1!
(20-01-2013 11:02 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  You spend the most on military, doesn't mean you have the BEST military. NK has the largest standing army in the world for example. As has been said, you certainly have the most wasteful military.
You spend something like 10% (could be 5%, can't remember) of your GDP on military spending. All other western countries spend 2.5% at most, with the majority spending less then that.
Not to mention that considering the UK's diplomacy with the US, if I live in the UK, I could safely assume that the US armed forces would defend my ass too, but at least I don't pay for it.
Also need I mention the abomination that is don't ask don't tell which took you till September 2011 to get rid of?
In times when you are lowering the standard of requirements to those with past convictions and such, you were at the same time discharging 10,000 perfectly good gay men from the armed forces. Also, I was not aware that sexual orientation played an effect on ones job performance.. The US should be embarrassed by that shit. I wouldn't be like, "hey, look our awesome army" if I was you.
I stand by my statement. We have most best, as well as most wasteful military in the world. I've served alongside a few dozen other militaries, the finest the world has to offer. None of them are as good as ours. If you think the kiwis could stand against the US you are mental.

earmuffs Wrote:If I live in the common wealth getting a visa to another country within the commonwealth is easier, especially if I have a UK passport. I'm sure travel in the EU is also very easy.

True, but that's a big hassle, and while it's cheap, it ain't free. Also I could do all of those things as well.

earmuffs Wrote:And the most gun related violence and the highest gun murder rate to boot.

I already acknowledged this fact.

earmuffs Wrote:Questionable. You clearly haven't seen some of the shit coming out of Japan..

While I didn't specifically mention Japan, I also acknowledged this as well.

earmuffs Wrote:Actually I believe Bollywood has surpassed Hollywood.
And 'Idol' and 'X Factor' etc.. hardly can be counted as 'TV'.
Where's the quality?

And besides, I'm sure Chinese TV is more popular.

I should have been more specific. When I said 'popular' I meant viewed regularly by the most countries, not in viewership alone. I'm sure you're right about the Chinese...I'm skeptical of the Bollywood claim though, India has an immense population, but it's a rather impoverished country as well. I don't know how many can afford to own a television and subscribe to cable or satellite T.V. programming. I'm quite sure Chinese T.V. series have more viewers than American.

earmuffs Wrote:SOME being key word. By the time every western country legalizes it, the US will finally have it legalized everywhere.
That's yet to be seen, pure speculation based on what? I'm not convinced.

earmuffs Wrote:Again, SOME states. Several countries have lax laws in regards to weed, particularly middle east/India where it's a religious/cultural thing.
But again, by the time the US makes it legal in all the states, the rest of the western world would have legalized it years prior.
And again...speculation. Time will tell.

earmuffs Wrote:Not quite, replace pride with ignorance and you're spot on.
You're not superior yet because you'll are so indoctrinated with patriotism fueled by not-entire-truth-teaching of your history the ignorance continues to grow.
I'll assume this isn't directed specifically at me. If it is, you're silly, and if not, I don't disagree that America as a whole could learn to be more humble. For the record what you refer to as patriotism, I would call false-patriotism.

earmuffs Wrote:No doubt it is still a "Great Nation". But at one point in time it use to be thee Great Nation.
America's time as the greatest country, like all great countries before it, is coming to an end. We/you are on the downward slope.
I agree we are in decline, but I think this is in large part globalization.

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21-01-2013, 09:53 PM
RE: The US is #1!
Quote:I stand by my statement. We have most best, as well as most wasteful
military in the world. I've served alongside a few dozen other
militaries, the finest the world has to offer. None of them are as good
as ours. If you think the kiwis could stand against the US you are
mental.

Of course we couldn't, our army tops out at 2,000 people. But I assure you, those 2,000 people are very well trained. I bet per-person (the average solider) we're better trained and better equipped then you.

And like I said, due to diplomatic relations, your army defends me too. But I'm not paying for it so...

Quote:True, but that's a big hassle, and while it's cheap, it ain't free. Also I could do all of those things as well.

Hassle? What, an hour filling out some forms? hardly. And sure you could, just like I could move to the US.

Quote:I already acknowledged this fact.
Quote:While I didn't specifically mention Japan, I also acknowledged this as well.

Not in the post I quoted.
And after reading the rest of the thread after re-reading your post Bucky pretty much beat me to the punch but whatever. Though I will like to comment on something you said;

Quote: but I'd wager our knife violence is lower

When those 20 children were massacred, hours prior in China a man entered a school and attacked children of the same age with a knife. He stabbed and slashed over 23 children, all of which survived.

Don't be proud that you have higher gun violence then knife violence (if that is even true, though I suspect it is).

Quote:I should have been more specific. When I said 'popular' I meant viewed
regularly by the most countries, not in viewership alone.

Popularity means number of people. You should have said "we have the most wide spread TV" to which I would ask wtf is your point? And UK TV may be more wide spread then US.

Quote:I'm skeptical of the Bollywood claim though

Bollywood is not limited to India... It is widely popular all over Asia (middle east and Russia included).
Not to mention half of India's population is under 20, that perfect movie watching age, compared to the western worlds aging population.

Quote: I don't know how many can afford to own a television and subscribe to cable or satellite T.V. programming.

Of course you don't, you're 'Murican.

Quote:That's yet to be seen, pure speculation based on what? I'm not convinced.

Two words, bible belt. Two more words, Jesus Christ. Two more words, Conservative Right. Another two, Supreme Court. And maybe two more for good luck, Batshit crazy.

Quote:For the record what you refer to as patriotism, I would call false-patriotism.

Well there is this "false-patriotism", but I'm talking about regular patriotism as well.

Quote:I agree we are in decline, but I think this is in large part globalization.

No.. other countries rise is in part due to globalization. The US was in position to stay on top, but due to patriotism and unwillingness to change (and that it's run by the grey haired old boys club) it has not remained on top and allowed other countries to rapidly catch up.


The Romans had the barbarians, the Germans had WW1/2, USA has patriotism and Christianity.

I don't talk gay, I don't walk gay, it's like people don't even know I'm gay unless I'm blowing them.
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22-01-2013, 10:48 AM
RE: The US is #1!
(21-01-2013 09:53 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Of course we couldn't, our army tops out at 2,000 people. But I assure you, those 2,000 people are very well trained. I bet per-person (the average solider) we're better trained and better equipped then you.

And like I said, due to diplomatic relations, your army defends me too. But I'm not paying for it so...
It's a bad bet. I'd put several countries above NZ in this department. US, UK, CZ, and Polish would go before NZ in my opinion. Again, I am saying America has the best, not most cost efficient. It also has nothing to do with who pays for what.

earmuffs Wrote:Hassle? What, an hour filling out some forms? hardly. And sure you could, just like I could move to the US.
Yeah...hassle and cost. I don't have to deal with it. No paperwork, no visa, just fill up my tank and go. I can live in any of these places by putting my shit in a truck and just driving.

earmuffs Wrote:Don't be proud that you have higher gun violence then knife violence (if that is even true, though I suspect it is).

Dude, I'm not going to side-track this thread by debating whether or not gun ownership is a good thing. I think it is, you don't, lets move on shall we?

earmuffs Wrote:Popularity means number of people. You should have said "we have the most wide spread TV" to which I would ask wtf is your point? And UK TV may be more wide spread then US.

Bollywood is not limited to India... It is widely popular all over Asia (middle east and Russia included).
Not to mention half of India's population is under 20, that perfect movie watching age, compared to the western worlds aging population.[/quote]

Fair point. US movies and television is the most popular of Western countries. UK is fairly competitive, and it may even be argued that they have better programming, but the UK's programming isn't as popular as the US.

earmuffs Wrote:Two words, bible belt. Two more words, Jesus Christ. Two more words, Conservative Right. Another two, Supreme Court. And maybe two more for good luck, Batshit crazy.
Well, I'm from the bible, and I'm conservative, far right. I'm for gay marriage equality and the end of marijuana prohibition, and so are many others. The movement is growing. My late-middle-aged religious father agrees, as do many others. Don't be so sure.

earmuffs Wrote:Well there is this "false-patriotism", but I'm talking about regular patriotism as well.
I really think this is a disagreement, or different understanding of the definition of 'patriotism'. For me patriotism is doing what is right for your country even if it means going against your government. I'm using the same definition of the word that Thomas Jefferson would have used.

Quote:I agree we are in decline, but I think this is in large part globalization.
No.. other countries rise is in part due to globalization. The US was in position to stay on top, but due to patriotism and unwillingness to change (and that it's run by the grey haired old boys club) it has not remained on top and allowed other countries to rapidly catch up.

The Romans had the barbarians, the Germans had WW1/2, USA has patriotism and Christianity.
[/quote]

Maybe, also I disagree with what you define patriotism as. What you are calling patriots, would call traitors.

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22-01-2013, 03:47 PM
RE: The US is #1!
Quote:It also has nothing to do with who pays for what.

Yes it does.
You say you have the best armed forces but it's extremely expensive and wasteful.
Part of being the best is being effective, being effective means that it doesn't cost 10% of your GDP to operate.
China for example could easily have a better armed forces then you if with enough money and resources invested.

It's a huge waste of money and strain on resources.

Quote:Yeah...hassle and cost. I don't have to deal with it. No paperwork, no
visa, just fill up my tank and go. I can live in any of these places by
putting my shit in a truck and just driving.

Bit of a drive from one side to the other though.

Besides, here I could live in Auckland, it'd never snow and be relatively warm all year round.
I could pack up a moving truck and go down south (it'd only take me a day, maybe overnight stop in Wellington) and then I'd too have a completely different climate.
Wouldn't even have to change state.

Quote:Dude, I'm not going to side-track this thread by debating whether or not
gun ownership is a good thing. I think it is, you don't, lets move on
shall we?

I'm sure those 11,000 a year would love to just move on, or those 20 children killed lately.
You brought it up be prepared to defend it.

Quote:Fair point. US movies and television is the most popular of Western
countries. UK is fairly competitive, and it may even be argued that they
have better programming, but the UK's programming isn't as popular as
the US.

Again, 'Idol' and 'X-Factor' etc.. hardly count as TV, that's more.. garbage.
And all the celebrity shows and shit, Jersey shore etc.. etc.. yuck.

Quote:Well, I'm from the bible, and I'm conservative, far right. I'm for gay
marriage equality and the end of marijuana prohibition, and so are many
others. The movement is growing. My late-middle-aged religious father
agrees, as do many others. Don't be so sure.

It wont be your generation that gets shit done, it'll be mine or the next one.

Quote:I really think this is a disagreement, or different understanding of the
definition of 'patriotism'. For me patriotism is doing what is right
for your country even if it means going against your government. I'm
using the same definition of the word that Thomas Jefferson would have
used.

Thomas Jefferson was a rich man whom was sick of paying taxes to England so he said a few things about how man had equal opportunity/equality (or something like that), even though he owned several hundred slaves, and people like you (working class) went off to fight the British and died, all the while he drank tea in his mansion.
'Americans' didn't die for ideals and freedom, 'Americans' died so the rich fat cats at the top (of the time) wouldn't have to pay taxes.

Quote:Maybe, also I disagree with what you define patriotism as. What you are calling patriots, would call traitors.

Would you die for your country?

I don't talk gay, I don't walk gay, it's like people don't even know I'm gay unless I'm blowing them.
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22-01-2013, 04:03 PM
RE: The US is #1!
Oh bother, I've been debating with a madman.

I've never brought up economics. Whether it's the most expensive or not our military is the best in the world.

You're happy with where you live? Good, glad to hear it. I'm sure NZ is a wonderful place with lovely weather.

Muffs, I said debate me on the gun issue elsewhere in politics section, where I've been defending my position. Look on germanyt's thread. It's too complicated of an issue to through in depth here.

You don't like the popular shows because they're stupid. Ok, got it, me too.

In what universe are we not part of the same generation? I'm what, five, six years older than you?

Taxation is directly linked with freedom. Americans were not just British colonists who wanted their overlords to save a buck. A lot of them got sick of being taxed without having any representation in Parliment (hope I'm using the right terminology.) They saw King George as a tyrant subjugating his will without concern for the practical problems of what would become America, and they were right to fight.

Yes, I would, but I would not die for my government.

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24-01-2013, 03:37 PM
RE: The US is #1!
Dno if this has been posted before... if it has, then fuck you, it is epic anyway. Tongue



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