The Unification of God
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09-09-2013, 10:46 PM (This post was last modified: 09-09-2013 11:07 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: The Unification of God
(09-09-2013 10:11 PM)childeye Wrote:  Don't see what that has to do with anything.

It relates to the thread you tried to hijack with your drivel. You missed the point as usual.

(09-09-2013 10:11 PM)childeye Wrote:  I really don't get where you're coming from. Just because you misunderstand or don't comprehend does not make what I say meaningless drivel.

I understand perfectly. It is meaningless drivel. You proved that in your multi-hundred page threads prior, in which you established nothing.

(09-09-2013 10:11 PM)childeye Wrote:  Certainly any Creator would exist outside of time and space. That does not mean His energy is not in the creation. Nor does it exclude Him from entering it or declaring future events that He knew would happen according to His proposed purpose. Hence His energy and intentions would transcend matter since matter time and space were both conceived and composed by it. How you can claim nothing transcends matter is clearly a reach beyond your knowledge. You should admit at least that there exists an energy that all matter was composed of.

No. To speak of a deity in terms which REQUIRE spacetime for their authentic essential meaning is self-refuting. You are attempting now to create an exception to a rule, AFTER you posited a rule with no meaningful exception. It's meaningless drivel. BTW, Matter and energy are interchangeable. You have no point. Energy does not "transcend" matter. Matter IS energy.

(09-09-2013 10:11 PM)childeye Wrote:  Everything we say speaking of what is eternal is automatically a concept from the temporal since we exist in the temporal. One would not distinguish the Light without the dark is essentially saying the same thing. So what is your point?

On the contrary, what is YOUR point ? You have none.

(09-09-2013 10:11 PM)childeye Wrote:  Finally, what exactly do you expect me to prove to you? I've proven Love exists and is the highest moral power for which most all sensible of mankind count as the highest reason to live and die for.

Nothing. You can't. You have proven nothing in your hundreds of pages of drivel. No one agreed with anything you said. No one.

Love may be a "value", and in Christianity it may be a "virtue". No Christian theologian claims it's their deity. You are outside the walls of your cult.
It certainly is a human emotion.
It is no deity.
You have proven nothing.

Go away again. ASAP.

Sho fly. You have nothing to offer this forum. You have proven it.
Buh bye.

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09-09-2013, 11:02 PM
 
RE: The Unification of God
(09-09-2013 10:40 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(09-09-2013 09:59 PM)Mike Wrote:  Can you explain a bit further why there is always a God?
God to me is defined as the ultimate Truth. This thread is either embracing or denying that idea in its' concept. Therefore God must exist when defined as the ultimate Truth, otherwise there is no such thing as true knowledge nor ignorance.

I believe the greatest mistake an atheist makes is discounting that Truth as pertaining to morality rather than what physical matter is composed of. We already know it is all energy that came form somewhere. Nonetheless, an atheist would seek God in a physical substance rather than identifying what is spirit. It therefore all comes down to how one defines the term God. God generally is counted as the supreme moral authority to believers. He is spirit and His substance is seen as such. Therefore believers see unbelievers as not believing in any supreme moral authority that exists spiritually in all mankind but has been corrupted through pride. Unbelievers define God as superstition until they can see Him physically. It therefore does not matter how much a believer proves God to an unbeliever since all the evidence of his existence is never regarded as evidence to an unbeliever.

Can you prove that ultimate Truth? How do you know that there will no such things such as true knowledge and ignorance if God or ultimate Truth don't exist? Btw, you define God as Love, which is just an intense feeling of deep affection. Really? From my understanding, God have no any physical body, form or shape. God is not even a kind of spirit. If you said God is a spirit, then the God is the same as human spirit, ghost, genie, etc. which is also a kind of spirit. Can you explain why unbelievers are corrupted through pride as what the believers and you have said?

Okay. I want to tell you, where did the energy that you said came from?
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09-09-2013, 11:47 PM
RE: The Unification of God
(09-09-2013 10:46 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  It relates to the thread you tried to hijack with your drivel. You missed the point as usual.
So what exactly does Allah having three daughters have to do with physics?

(09-09-2013 10:11 PM)childeye Wrote:  I really don't get where you're coming from. Just because you misunderstand or don't comprehend does not make what I say meaningless drivel.

Quote:I understand perfectly. It is meaningless drivel. You proved that in your multi-hundred page threads prior, in which you established nothing.
I disagree. I clearly established using your own words from the record that you make up your own definitions of God which you then don't believe in. I proved that atheism always ends in hypocrisy when God is defined as Love. Hence love rules as the supreme moral authority.

(09-09-2013 10:11 PM)childeye Wrote:  Certainly any Creator would exist outside of time and space. That does not mean His energy is not in the creation. Nor does it exclude Him from entering it or declaring future events that He knew would happen according to His proposed purpose. Hence His energy and intentions would transcend matter since matter time and space were both conceived and composed by it. How you can claim nothing transcends matter is clearly a reach beyond your knowledge. You should admit at least that there exists an energy that all matter was composed of.

Quote:No. To speak of a deity in terms which REQUIRE spacetime for their authentic essential meaning is self-refuting.
Not at all. One cannot discern what is Light without the concept of darkness.
Quote: You are attempting now to create an exception to a rule, AFTER you posited a rule with no meaningful exception.
What rule would that be? I only posted the golden rule. What exception do you claim I am now putting forth?
Quote: It's meaningless drivel. BTW, Matter and energy are interchangeable. You have no point. Energy does not "transcend" matter. Matter IS energy.
My point is matter is composed of energy which is supported by big bang theory and the discovery of the higgs boson which is believed to direct energy what to form in to. Hence energy existed before the physical matter we see. Sure, even the higgs boson is made of energy that came from somewhere. Still the energy came first.

(09-09-2013 10:11 PM)childeye Wrote:  Everything we say speaking of what is eternal is automatically a concept from the temporal since we exist in the temporal. One would not distinguish the Light without the dark is essentially saying the same thing. So what is your point?

Quote:On the contrary, what is YOUR point ? You have none.
My point is you've made no useful point by saying the phrase eternal endurance is a temporal concept. As far as I can tell, it is no different than saying temporal existence is an eternal concept.

(09-09-2013 10:11 PM)childeye Wrote:  Finally, what exactly do you expect me to prove to you? I've proven Love exists and is the highest moral power for which most all sensible of mankind count as the highest reason to live and die for.

Quote:Nothing. You can't. You have proven nothing in your hundreds of pages of drivel. No one agreed with anything you said. No one.
You all agreed Love rules as our moral spirit, you just don't want to reference Love as God. Hence you have an aversion to the term rather than what it refers to. I proved that and so did you.

Quote:Love may be a "value", and in Christianity it may be a "virtue". Mo Christian theologian claims it's their deity.
How wrong you are. Even dictionaries recognize that God is love to Christians. The very act of Christ in the Gospel is regarded as a divine Love by Christians.

Quote:It certainly is a human emotion.
It is no deity.You have proven nothing.
It is an emotion seen in many creatures. Your aversion to the term God is clearly seen. Please try and understand that Faith is about wanting to believe God is Love, not proving Love is a deity. So that you might ask yourself in all honesty why would you want to believe God is not Love? Ask yourself why anyone would want to believe Love does not endure forever? Ask yourself what are the different implications of both beliefs and the accompanying spirits that dwell therein? I did ask those questions because I saw no harm in considering and weighing the different outcomes. Faith is logical.
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09-09-2013, 11:50 PM
RE: The Unification of God
(09-09-2013 11:02 PM)Mike Wrote:  
(09-09-2013 10:40 PM)childeye Wrote:  God to me is defined as the ultimate Truth. This thread is either embracing or denying that idea in its' concept. Therefore God must exist when defined as the ultimate Truth, otherwise there is no such thing as true knowledge nor ignorance.

I believe the greatest mistake an atheist makes is discounting that Truth as pertaining to morality rather than what physical matter is composed of. We already know it is all energy that came form somewhere. Nonetheless, an atheist would seek God in a physical substance rather than identifying what is spirit. It therefore all comes down to how one defines the term God. God generally is counted as the supreme moral authority to believers. He is spirit and His substance is seen as such. Therefore believers see unbelievers as not believing in any supreme moral authority that exists spiritually in all mankind but has been corrupted through pride. Unbelievers define God as superstition until they can see Him physically. It therefore does not matter how much a believer proves God to an unbeliever since all the evidence of his existence is never regarded as evidence to an unbeliever.

Can you prove that ultimate Truth? How do you know that there will no such things such as true knowledge and ignorance if God or ultimate Truth don't exist? Btw, you define God as Love, which is just an intense feeling of deep affection. Really? From my understanding, God have no any physical body, form or shape. God is not even a kind of spirit. If you said God is a spirit, then the God is the same as human spirit, ghost, genie, etc. which is also a kind of spirit. Can you explain why unbelievers are corrupted through pride as what the believers and you have said?

Okay. I want to tell you, where did the energy that you said came from?
Sorry Mike. It's past my bed time and I must work tomorrow. I will try to get back to you God willing.
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10-09-2013, 01:13 AM
RE: The Unification of God
Drop the hammer...

(09-09-2013 11:47 PM)childeye Wrote:  I disagree. I clearly established using your own words from the record that you make up your own definitions of God which you then don't believe in. I proved that atheism always ends in hypocrisy when God is defined as Love. Hence love rules as the supreme moral authority.

Congratulations, your definition of a god is meaningless. Your god is an emotion, big fucking whoop. Love does not create the universe, love does not punish sin, love does not answer prayer. Love is simply an emotion, a chemical reaction in the brain experienced by sufficiently intelligent social animals. Your 'god' concept is indistinguishable from an aspect of nature, and thus is a superfluous and unnecessary assumption.


Quote:Not at all. One cannot discern what is Light without the concept of darkness.


Light is a packet of energy in the visible light spectrum known as a photon. Darkness is simply an absence of photons, darkness is not a 'thing', it is the absence of something in particular. Much like atheism is a lack of belief in gods...


(09-09-2013 10:46 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  You are attempting now to create an exception to a rule, AFTER you posited a rule with no meaningful exception.
Quote: What rule would that be? I only posted the golden rule. What exception do you claim I am now putting forth?

He's talking about this...

Quote:Certainly any Creator would exist outside of time and space. That does not mean His energy is not in the creation. Nor does it exclude Him from entering it or declaring future events that He knew would happen according to His proposed purpose. Hence His energy and intentions would transcend matter since matter time and space were both conceived and composed by it. How you can claim nothing transcends matter is clearly a reach beyond your knowledge. You should admit at least that there exists an energy that all matter was composed of.

You're entire paragraph is a word soup of contradictions and presuppositions. You have no evidence for anything you've simply asserted out of this air. Claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.


Quote:My point is matter is composed of energy which is supported by big bang theory and the discovery of the higgs boson which is believed to direct energy what to form in to. Hence energy existed before the physical matter we see. Sure, even the higgs boson is made of energy that came from somewhere. Still the energy came first.

I love the 'I don't know, therefore quantum mechanics, therefor god' arguments from ignorance. The Higgs Boson is a fundamental particle and part of the standard model, and is believed to confirm the existence of the Higgs field, which theoretically gives mass to the other fundamental particles. It is physics, not the Big Bang theory, that has posited and shown that matter is just another form of energy. Most likely everything was energy at first. Unfortunately we don't know where that energy came from, but I'd bet good money it didn't come from an emotion... Drinking Beverage


(09-09-2013 10:11 PM)childeye Wrote:  Everything we say speaking of what is eternal is automatically a concept from the temporal since we exist in the temporal. One would not distinguish the Light without the dark is essentially saying the same thing. So what is your point?
(09-09-2013 10:46 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  On the contrary, what is YOUR point ? You have none.
My point is you've made no useful point by saying the phrase eternal endurance is a temporal concept. As far as I can tell, it is no different than saying temporal existence is an eternal concept.

Once again, what is the point of your word soup? If your objective is to write nonsensical drivel with the aim of being as obtuse and confusing as possible, then mission accomplished.


(09-09-2013 10:11 PM)childeye Wrote:  Finally, what exactly do you expect me to prove to you? I've proven Love exists and is the highest moral power for which most all sensible of mankind count as the highest reason to live and die for.
(09-09-2013 10:46 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Nothing. You can't. You have proven nothing in your hundreds of pages of drivel. No one agreed with anything you said. No one.
You all agreed Love rules as our moral spirit, you just don't want to reference Love as God. Hence you have an aversion to the term rather than what it refers to. I proved that and so did you.

We did not all agree to this and you have once again failed to 'prove' anything, thanks for playing, I award you zero points.


(09-09-2013 10:46 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Love may be a "value", and in Christianity it may be a "virtue". No Christian theologian claims it's their deity.
Quote:How wrong you are. Even dictionaries recognize that God is love to Christians. The very act of Christ in the Gospel is regarded as a divine Love by Christians.

Need I start quoting the Bible to remind you of acts of divine hate, murder, war, genocide, misogyny, racism, etc.? Divine love? If you consider the tortured death of your 'only son' as divine love, I'd hate to see what you'd do to any of your children in sharing 'god's love' with them; as I imagine it would involve a pile of 2x4's and a nail gun, or maybe kerosene and matches.

Don't want to posit the tradition god of theism as love? Want to try for something more deistic? Doesn't work. This is not the universe that a loving god would create. Also the concept of 'love' is meaningless outside of an interventionist or creationist deity concept. A god that never does anything or never created anything has no way of expressing it's 'love', just being is not love.


(09-09-2013 10:46 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  It certainly is a human emotion.
It is no deity.You have proven nothing.
Quote:It is an emotion seen in many creatures.

Congratulation for finally figuring this out. Will it stop you from make baseless assumptions in the future on behalf of your god concept? Probably not...


Quote:Your aversion to the term God is clearly seen.

Bucky and I both have an aversion to presupposition.


Quote:Please try and understand that Faith is about wanting to believe God is Love, not proving Love is a deity.

Argument from ignorance.


Quote:So that you might ask yourself in all honesty why would you want to believe God is not Love?

Nope, argument from ignorance. There is no good reason to believe that a god exists, let alone that it's your unsupported and nonsensical assumption that it is an emotion.


Quote:Ask yourself why anyone would want to believe Love does not endure forever?

Argument from consequence and ignorance. 'Love' is a label that we give to an emotion, born of chemical reactions in the brain. In a universe that does not contain any life, or where all life ceases to exist, love will cease to exist. Unless you have some evidence to put forward that inanimate objects like rocks are capable of emotion and keeping 'love' alive in the absence of intelligent life.


Quote:Ask yourself what are the different implications of both beliefs and the accompanying spirits that dwell therein?

Evidence for spirits or GTFO.


Quote:I did ask those questions because I saw no harm in considering and weighing the different outcomes. Faith is logical.

Faith =/= Logic.

Faith
-complete trust or confidence in someone or something.

Logic
-reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity.

Notice how one requires evidence and justification, and the other does not? Drinking Beverage

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10-09-2013, 01:24 AM
 
RE: The Unification of God
(09-09-2013 11:50 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(09-09-2013 11:02 PM)Mike Wrote:  Can you prove that ultimate Truth? How do you know that there will no such things such as true knowledge and ignorance if God or ultimate Truth don't exist? Btw, you define God as Love, which is just an intense feeling of deep affection. Really? From my understanding, God have no any physical body, form or shape. God is not even a kind of spirit. If you said God is a spirit, then the God is the same as human spirit, ghost, genie, etc. which is also a kind of spirit. Can you explain why unbelievers are corrupted through pride as what the believers and you have said?

Okay. I want to tell you, where did the energy that you said came from?
Sorry Mike. It's past my bed time and I must work tomorrow. I will try to get back to you God willing.

Then good for you. Don't forget to do some physics revision before you going to sleep. Smile
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10-09-2013, 01:46 AM
 
RE: The Unification of God
(09-09-2013 11:47 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(09-09-2013 10:46 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  It certainly is a human emotion.
It is no deity.You have proven nothing.
It is an emotion seen in many creatures. Your aversion to the term God is clearly seen. Please try and understand that Faith is about wanting to believe God is Love, not proving Love is a deity. So that you might ask yourself in all honesty why would you want to believe God is not Love? Ask yourself why anyone would want to believe Love does not endure forever? Ask yourself what are the different implications of both beliefs and the accompanying spirits that dwell therein? I did ask those questions because I saw no harm in considering and weighing the different outcomes. Faith is logical.

"Faith is about wanting to believe God is Love, not proving Love is a deity". Wow. Huh So you redefine God as a physical one, or what? How's that? Why are you saying God is Love, btw?

Secondly, you said "You all agreed Love rules as our moral spirit, you just don't want to reference Love as God. Hence you have an aversion to the term rather than what it refers to. I proved that and so did you". So, you said God is a spirit again? If you reference Love as God then automatically you're asserting Love is a deity.
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10-09-2013, 06:40 AM
RE: The Unification of God
(09-09-2013 08:43 PM)Paranoidsam Wrote:  So, by attempting to form this proposed 'Theory of Everything', that would be clear, easy to understand and elegant in nature... are we simply just trying to find a replacement for God in order to satisfy the desire for an equally grand and appealing explanation, when in reality it doesn't exist?

No.

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10-09-2013, 07:06 AM
RE: The Unification of God
For Childeye's sake...

I'm not arguing about whether or not God exists, I've already decided he doesn't...

I'm trying to raise a point that (as I see it), the attempt to create a single 'theory of everything' is driven by a human desire for an all encompassing explanation... when it might be unobtainable.

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10-09-2013, 07:40 AM
RE: The Unification of God
(09-09-2013 11:47 PM)childeye Wrote:  So what exactly does Allah having three daughters have to do with physics?
Nothing. You missed the point. Look at the OP. Then go away.

(09-09-2013 11:47 PM)childeye Wrote:  I disagree. I clearly established using your own words from the record that you make up your own definitions of God which you then don't believe in. I proved that atheism always ends in hypocrisy when God is defined as Love. Hence love rules as the supreme moral authority.

No you didn't. You didn't even come close. AFter hundreds of posts you ended up nowhere. You're delusional. That's all you proved.

(09-09-2013 11:47 PM)childeye Wrote:  What rule would that be? I only posted the golden rule. What exception do you claim I am now putting forth?

You're so inept you can't even follow a conversation.

(09-09-2013 10:11 PM)childeye Wrote:  My point is matter is composed of energy which is supported by big bang theory and the discovery of the higgs boson which is believed to direct energy what to form in to. Hence energy existed before the physical matter we see. Sure, even the higgs boson is made of energy that came from somewhere. Still the energy came first.

You said one was transcendent. Neither are. THAT's the point. Again you can't follow a conversation. Are you suffering from a mental illness ?

(09-09-2013 10:11 PM)childeye Wrote:  My point is you've made no useful point by saying the phrase eternal endurance is a temporal concept. As far as I can tell, it is no different than saying temporal existence is an eternal concept.

That's your problem. There is a point there. Ether you can't see it, or refuse to. Either way, it proves you are incapable of holding a coherent argument.

(09-09-2013 10:11 PM)childeye Wrote:  You all agreed Love rules as our moral spirit, you just don't want to reference Love as God. Hence you have an aversion to the term rather than what it refers to. I proved that and so did you.

No one agreed on that. You tell yourself that because you are delusional. NOT ONE person agreed on that. That was what you kept saying, and NO ONE agreed. Show me where anyone agreed on that bullshit. You can't. Now go away.

(09-09-2013 10:11 PM)childeye Wrote:  How wrong you are. Even dictionaries recognize that God is love to Christians. The very act of Christ in the Gospel is regarded as a divine Love by Christians.

Obviously you never read your Babble. St. Paul said love was a virtue, not a god.

(09-09-2013 10:11 PM)childeye Wrote:  It is an emotion seen in many creatures. Your aversion to the term God is clearly seen. Please try and understand that Faith is about wanting to believe God is Love, not proving Love is a deity. So that you might ask yourself in all honesty why would you want to believe God is not Love? Ask yourself why anyone would want to believe Love does not endure forever? Ask yourself what are the different implications of both beliefs and the accompanying spirits that dwell therein? I did ask those questions because I saw no harm in considering and weighing the different outcomes. Faith is logical.

No it isn't. It's the most illogical thing.
Go peddle you garbage somewhere else.

We've had enough of your drivel. You don't define what words mean, or define and decree what others do and do not intend to do, and mean.

Sho fly.
Crawl back into your hole.

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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