The Unification of God
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11-09-2013, 10:44 AM (This post was last modified: 11-09-2013 10:54 AM by JAH.)
RE: The Unification of God
bemore, I am not at all a geologist but a very revealing thought came to me when I learned a little about plate tectonics. Basically the surface of the earth is pond scum floating on a sea of molten material.

I also had another revealing thought when making a long commute for work regularly that included two places where I was at an elevated position on a freeway and could see quite a bit of the road in front of me. It rather reminded me of movies I have seen of the paths of worker bees in hives. We are a social animal and need to accept that is what we are.

As I said twice (I think) now I think monotheism plays on the transitory existence of humans for political gain. Humans need to think there is some reason for their existence. They have difficulty seeing themselves as no different than ants, bees, wolves, buffalo and other collective animals albeit having a higher level of reasoning. Monotheism plays on that difficulty by providing an overriding reason for existence. It then uses the reason provided as a control mechanism.

As far as a theory describing everything the mathematics may only be available about the time the earth sinks into the sun. I once through work received a part of a study of tree rings in California (used to determine long term weather patterns). The mathematics required very much confused me, a person that as an engineer took 2 years of college level math. I could understand them only by thinking what they were trying to do. As an example they had to differentiate between something like a very wet year sandwiched between two very dry years or a very dry year sandwiched between two very wet years, not to mention several dry or wet years in a row. Things are too complicated even in physics for a general theory that completely describes everything.

Getting back to the OP I am very comfortable saying that humans do have some intrinsic emotional needs that may lead to the rise of monotheism. I do not think that is the primary reason it occurred.
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11-09-2013, 12:52 PM (This post was last modified: 11-09-2013 01:15 PM by childeye.)
RE: The Unification of God
(10-09-2013 03:23 PM)JAH Wrote:  childeye, ok I give up being polite, go away you asshole, you offer nothing to this thread. I assume that you are making the argument that monotheism arose because there is one true god and that god (by your definition I would point out) is "love". Now go away and allow those of who find this an interesting social/political question a chance to discuss.
I fail to see where I have been an asshole according to your criteria. You say this:
I assume that you are making the argument that monotheism arose because there is one true god and that god (by your definition I would point out) is "love".You are correct that I am suggesting that as men contemplated God, (Is there a God? Why are we here?... etc...), they came to understand certain truths that are self-evident. I am glad you pointed out that what you call my definition is Love, the moral and most meaningful aspect of life. However this definition was regarded as correct long before I was born.

At any rate, I have contributed to the discussion precisely by offering this alternative view, as opposed to your definition of god which is superstition. That doesn't make me an asshole nor a hijacker of this thread. According to your words in italics above, I am on topic. I have just as much right to talk about it as you do.
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11-09-2013, 01:12 PM (This post was last modified: 11-09-2013 01:32 PM by childeye.)
RE: The Unification of God
(11-09-2013 09:17 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  How about the mods split off the part of this thread when Chishish enters, and hijacks this perfectly legit thread, and it's question with his multi-thread series of non sequiturs and insistence that he gets to redefine the word "god" by bizarre definition. It's going to go on for hundreds of more pages. Since he is so blind to reality, that he actually claimed people agreed with him, and that he had "proven" something when in fact both were false, it's clear he lives in a fantasy world. Somewhere "else", which normal humans have no access to.
Really Bucky ball? The bible called God Love way before you were born. The Godhead is a political position of that which resides at the top of all power. In other words, what is the ultimate truth and moral authority. And it seems you feel completely legitimate by claiming there is no one residing at the godhead. Next you will probably say there is no Godhead as if politics don't occur. Which of course means all morality is only subjective and no one is ever really right or wrong in any moral or immoral reasoning or their subsequent behavior. I'm sorry, but I disagree. There is a such thing as right and wrong. Believing in God is simply believing in accountability to someone higher than one's self. Politics are inevitable. If you are the highest power, than in your mind you make yourself to be god just like Ceasar did. Why? Because the term "god" represents the highest power and moral authority.

It is not right to take the term god and make it mean something other than it means, and then put down all the writers of scripture and those who believe based on your changing of what they were even talking about.

Hence it makes perfect sense that there were many gods or images of what sits at the godhead. These images have to do with character. Some gods were might makes right types. Battles were waged over whose god was really god or more powerful. Eventually comes agreement however and as men came to find common ground they also found agreement and peace. Empathy and realizing we are all essentially the same and seek the same things brings forth co-operation towards those things that serve the community as a whole. There is a right and wrong therefore. You can knock me all you want because I believe in the Christ as the True image of God. But don't make up things bad to say about me based on your misunderstandings of what I say. It is wrong and ungodly to do so.
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11-09-2013, 01:20 PM
RE: The Unification of God
(11-09-2013 10:44 AM)JAH Wrote:  bemore, I am not at all a geologist but a very revealing thought came to me when I learned a little about plate tectonics. Basically the surface of the earth is pond scum floating on a sea of molten material.

I also had another revealing thought when making a long commute for work regularly that included two places where I was at an elevated position on a freeway and could see quite a bit of the road in front of me. It rather reminded me of movies I have seen of the paths of worker bees in hives. We are a social animal and need to accept that is what we are.

As I said twice (I think) now I think monotheism plays on the transitory existence of humans for political gain. Humans need to think there is some reason for their existence. They have difficulty seeing themselves as no different than ants, bees, wolves, buffalo and other collective animals albeit having a higher level of reasoning. Monotheism plays on that difficulty by providing an overriding reason for existence. It then uses the reason provided as a control mechanism.

As far as a theory describing everything the mathematics may only be available about the time the earth sinks into the sun. I once through work received a part of a study of tree rings in California (used to determine long term weather patterns). The mathematics required very much confused me, a person that as an engineer took 2 years of college level math. I could understand them only by thinking what they were trying to do. As an example they had to differentiate between something like a very wet year sandwiched between two very dry years or a very dry year sandwiched between two very wet years, not to mention several dry or wet years in a row. Things are too complicated even in physics for a general theory that completely describes everything.

Getting back to the OP I am very comfortable saying that humans do have some intrinsic emotional needs that may lead to the rise of monotheism. I do not think that is the primary reason it occurred.

I can fully understand there being political reasons behind the shift towards monotheism. I've picked up plenty of information about the process towards it.

The fact that the Israelites were facing threats from neighboring kingdoms led to the banning of all deities other than Yahweh, then the god of war.

What's difficult to understand (for me) is how the ordinary people's belief shifted from seeing Yahweh as a war god, into an almighty benevolent god and creator.

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11-09-2013, 01:44 PM
RE: The Unification of God
(11-09-2013 12:52 PM)childeye Wrote:  I have just as much right to talk about it as you do.


Hey childeye, remember this?


(10-09-2013 03:01 PM)childeye Wrote:  You weren't even there, so you have no place to stand and say anything about it.

I remember that.

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11-09-2013, 01:49 PM
RE: The Unification of God
(11-09-2013 10:44 AM)JAH Wrote:  bemore, I am not at all a geologist but a very revealing thought came to me when I learned a little about plate tectonics. Basically the surface of the earth is pond scum floating on a sea of molten material.

I also had another revealing thought when making a long commute for work regularly that included two places where I was at an elevated position on a freeway and could see quite a bit of the road in front of me. It rather reminded me of movies I have seen of the paths of worker bees in hives. We are a social animal and need to accept that is what we are.

As I said twice (I think) now I think monotheism plays on the transitory existence of humans for political gain. Humans need to think there is some reason for their existence. They have difficulty seeing themselves as no different than ants, bees, wolves, buffalo and other collective animals albeit having a higher level of reasoning. Monotheism plays on that difficulty by providing an overriding reason for existence. It then uses the reason provided as a control mechanism.

As far as a theory describing everything the mathematics may only be available about the time the earth sinks into the sun. I once through work received a part of a study of tree rings in California (used to determine long term weather patterns). The mathematics required very much confused me, a person that as an engineer took 2 years of college level math. I could understand them only by thinking what they were trying to do. As an example they had to differentiate between something like a very wet year sandwiched between two very dry years or a very dry year sandwiched between two very wet years, not to mention several dry or wet years in a row. Things are too complicated even in physics for a general theory that completely describes everything.

Getting back to the OP I am very comfortable saying that humans do have some intrinsic emotional needs that may lead to the rise of monotheism. I do not think that is the primary reason it occurred.
Good post Jah. I certainly believe that some people have used the name god for the sake of political power and instilling fear for the sake of control. Scripture describes this happening all the time. Hence do not take God's name in vain was a commandment. As I've said before, politics are inevitable. The truth is monotheism would make the most sense. Instead of talking about each persons opinion of what the ultimate moral Truth is, a single God implies common interests and co-operation.
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11-09-2013, 01:51 PM
RE: The Unification of God
(11-09-2013 01:44 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(11-09-2013 12:52 PM)childeye Wrote:  I have just as much right to talk about it as you do.


Hey childeye, remember this?


(10-09-2013 03:01 PM)childeye Wrote:  You weren't even there, so you have no place to stand and say anything about it.

I remember that.

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I still don't remember you being there. Did you have a different moniker?
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11-09-2013, 02:01 PM
RE: The Unification of God
(11-09-2013 01:51 PM)childeye Wrote:  I still don't remember you being there. Did you have a different moniker?

This is the internet, the forums are an archive. I can go back a look up any thread I want and work my way through it. Not being present at the time does not disqualify me from the debate, because these debates are not held in real time. So I find it amusing that you'd defend your own right to post your opinion while demanding that I did not have that same right.

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11-09-2013, 02:02 PM
RE: The Unification of God
(11-09-2013 01:51 PM)childeye Wrote:  I still don't remember you being there. Did you have a different moniker?

You... do realize that's entirely beside the point, yes?

You cannot simultaneously in good faith:
Say another has no right to speak of something;
Say you have as much right to speak of something as another;
Proceed to speak on something you have no right to speak of.

For the conclusion of the first two statements is that your right to speak of a thing is the same as another's, which is to say - none. Not having a 'right' to speak of something, and doing so anyway, is hypocritical.

But, we know you're not too concerned with pesky things like logic.

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11-09-2013, 02:14 PM
RE: The Unification of God
(11-09-2013 02:01 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(11-09-2013 01:51 PM)childeye Wrote:  I still don't remember you being there. Did you have a different moniker?

This is the internet, the forums are an archive. I can go back a look up any thread I want and work my way through it. Not being present at the time does not disqualify me from the debate, because these debates are not held in real time. So I find it amusing that you'd defend your own right to post your opinion while demanding that I did not have that same right.

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Well that explains your attitude at least. I never meant to imply you had no right to post your opinion. I seriously doubt you read the post that showed all the different definitions given to the term god or else you would not have claimed I proved nothing, when in fact I proved in black and white that they all made up their own definitions of god and then didn't believe in them based on that criteria. I pointed out that if that is what god meant or gods meant then I too would be an atheist.
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