The United States and its Military - A Force For Good
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08-02-2012, 08:00 PM
The United States and its Military - A Force For Good
I've seen enough comments in other threads to think that we can have a good debate on this topic. I believe the United States, and its military actions, have been a force for good in the world. Please enlighten me as to why I'm wrong about that Big Grin
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08-02-2012, 08:26 PM
RE: The United States and its Military - A Force For Good




Obviously pretty biased but it's got some good points. Also take the American war in the Philippines fought around 1900 for example. After "liberating" them from the Spanish with the help of rebels led by Emilio Aguinaldo, we refused to grant them their freedom. The rebels not surprisingly realized they weren't better off than before and eventually fought for their independence in an ironic parallel of the American war for independence. The U.S. won the war after some 200,000-1,500,000 civilian casualties, and the islands weren't independent until (ironically) July 4, 1946.

The American military undoubtedly does some good in the world. They also undoubtedly do some pretty terrible stuff. If you want to tally it all up and somehow come up with the net effect, I don't think that's really practical.
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08-02-2012, 10:12 PM
RE: The United States and its Military - A Force For Good
The American military is a wave of destruction, captained by good intentions but usually guided by a malicious undercurrent. We crash against the defenseless shores, aiming to deftly pluck the bad egg from the nest, but instead we destroy the entire hen house, breaking thousands of innocent eggs in the process. We are a child with a new puppy; we only meant to hug, but we didn't know our own strength.

The problem lies in the paradoxical military technique of conquering violence with violence. Like killing cancer with chemo; you'll kill off a lot of healthy cells in the process.


Or as Marvin Gaye would put it.

"Father father, we don't need to escalate. War is not the answer, for only love can conquer hate."


That being said, 2-37 Armor Division. Go tankers. Hooah.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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09-02-2012, 07:46 AM (This post was last modified: 09-02-2012 08:25 AM by Zat.)
RE: The United States and its Military - A Force For Good
Jeff, I have seen some deluded and brainwashed people in my life but, honestly, you take the cake.

The title of this thread is as exact an opposite of the truth as it can possibly be.

I have already known, but now I am fully convinced, that no rational debate on the subject is possible between you and me.

You can't debate Mozart with the deaf or Van Gogh with the blind.

Sorry, but I don't like to waste my time with hopeless exercises.

Nothing personal, you may be a perfectly nice guy in all other respects. Smile

...and with this post I am GONE from this thread. Big Grin
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09-02-2012, 07:50 AM
RE: The United States and its Military - A Force For Good
More like a govt welfare program for the uber rich.
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09-02-2012, 09:01 AM
RE: The United States and its Military - A Force For Good
(09-02-2012 07:46 AM)Zat Wrote:  Jeff, I have seen some deluded and brainwashed people in my life but, honestly, you take the cake.

You are the only unpleasant individual I've encountered on this forum. I'm sure there are lots of people here who disagree with my opinions, but none have been unpleasant, resorted to name-calling, insults or other low-class stunts.

(09-02-2012 07:46 AM)Zat Wrote:  ...and with this post I am GONE from this thread. Big Grin

Since you are in this forum not to debate, discuss or learn, but only to pontificate, I won't miss your contribution. Bye!Big GrinBig Grin
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09-02-2012, 01:11 PM
RE: The United States and its Military - A Force For Good
(09-02-2012 07:46 AM)Zat Wrote:  Jeff, I have seen some deluded and brainwashed people in my life but, honestly, you take the cake.

The title of this thread is as exact an opposite of the truth as it can possibly be.

I have already known, but now I am fully convinced, that no rational debate on the subject is possible between you and me.

You can't debate Mozart with the deaf or Van Gogh with the blind.

Sorry, but I don't like to waste my time with hopeless exercises.

Nothing personal, you may be a perfectly nice guy in all other respects. Smile

...and with this post I am GONE from this thread. Big Grin


I smell patchouli... and is that a drum circle in the yard?

That whole "I refuse to talk about it because I know I'm right, bye!" mindset is very theist of you.

You seem to view the military as a concept; as a mass of robot clones mindlessly following the orders of the evil government's plans. But I know the people in the military. They are families and individuals just like you. They are just people trying to help other people, and they are doing a better job of it than you are. If any of the soldiers I've been to war with were given an order to kill an unarmed person or harm a child, he would immediately tell that order-giver to fuck off, and so would I. Most of the time we spent in Ramadi was helping civilians injured in civil war crossfire. We opened a clinic with our medics so that people could bring in their sick and injured children, neither condition having anything to do with our occupation of the country.

The amount of "bad soldiers doing bad things" that your type seems to cling to is an insignificant dozen compared to the 2 million that have been deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan. People can be evil, but the army is not inherently so.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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09-02-2012, 01:49 PM
RE: The United States and its Military - A Force For Good
(08-02-2012 08:26 PM)Ben Wrote:  


Ben, that's a good video to kick start the conversation. While I consider it, please answer a few questions:

1. Of the problem situations in the video where the US got involved, how many have their roots in European colonialism or European imperialism?

2. Is the United States the only government that intervenes in other countries as shown in the video?

3. If the US is not alone in this activity, would you please post videos that cover the activities of other nations, perhaps the members of the UN Security Council would be a good starting point.
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09-02-2012, 05:06 PM
RE: The United States and its Military - A Force For Good
I apologize for the name calling.

I was in a state of shock when I saw the thread title.

It was like someone proposing to debate whether the Earth is REALLY flat and the sun goes around it.

It suggested such a staggering ignorance of history that I could not see a way to discuss it rationally.

My suspicion was that Jeff intended a forum to publicize US military propaganda, as he has done before.

Anyway, it does not excuse my losing my temper, he had a perfect right to start that thread, just as I have a perfect right not to participate in it.

So, once more, I am sorry for being less than polite -- I will try not to do it again.

However, I am really gone from this thread because the topic itself makes me sick.

I have a rap-sheet for US foreign policy and the US Army (most armies, for the record) a mile long, based on historical facts, and I am tired of bringing it up over and over and over for people who don't seem to have studied history or even paid attention to the news.

Debate away, if you wish -- without me (that should be a relief to some Big Grin )
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09-02-2012, 05:34 PM
RE: The United States and its Military - A Force For Good
(09-02-2012 01:49 PM)Jeff Wrote:  1. Of the problem situations in the video where the US got involved, how many have their roots in European colonialism or European imperialism?

Prime Minister Mossadeq of Iran - This one was probably rooted in European imperialism. He was removed from power because he was trying to nationalize Iranian oil production and leave the British, who had been controlling their oil production for years, out of it.

President Arbenz of Guatemala - Not directly related to imperialism. He was removed because he was giving unused land set aside by corporations to peasants, and the United States decided that was too communist.

President Diem was assassinated primarily because of his autocratic rule and persecution of Buddhists.

The 1973 coup in Chile was again more related to communism and the Cold War than European imperialism. The democratically elected president was "socialist-leaning." The dictator Pinochet then took power and tortured and killed 34,000 people for opposing his politics.

The U.S. support of the Salvadoran military dictatorship was unrelated to European imperialism. It was, yet again, about communism.

The U.S. training of Osama Bin Laden was obviously also focused on rooting out communism in the world.

The training of Nicaraguan "contras" was also about communism. The rebels opposed the Sandinista National Liberation Front, a socialist political party.

The U.S. support of Saddam Hussein seems mostly related to oil and Iran's theocratic government at the time.

Invasion of Panama was because Noriega's regime was supporting drug trafficking and violating human rights.

The invasion of Kuwait was all about oil.

The missile strike on the aspirin factory was because, as stated in the video, the U.S. thought they had intelligence that it was manufacturing weapons.

Quote:2. Is the United States the only government that intervenes in other countries as shown in the video?

3. If the US is not alone in this activity, would you please post videos that cover the activities of other nations, perhaps the members of the UN Security Council would be a good starting point.

I honestly don't know the answer to these questions. I'm sure we're not the only nation to ever intervene, but, either way, does "everyone's doing it" make it okay? Confused
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