The Universe can be 6 days old
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16-03-2016, 08:23 PM
RE: The Universe can be 6 days old
(16-03-2016 08:01 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I am not using my disorder to gain attention. I am pointing out that I am unable to understand your logic when you use assumptions that I haven't agreed to. It's an appeal to you and everyone else to please use another approach when communicating with me because I don't have this ability.

Yes, you do.

I also have Asperger's.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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16-03-2016, 08:26 PM (This post was last modified: 16-03-2016 08:39 PM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: The Universe can be 6 days old
(16-03-2016 08:12 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(16-03-2016 08:01 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  It's the same concept we use to measure years before the earth was created. Is it not?
Are you not claiming we cannot measure days before the earth was created?

You tell me. YOU said there were 24 hours. What did you mean by that ?
How did you measure those. EXACTLY, in that context.
I have a feeling you're just bullshitting about everything.
You say a photon existing since the Big Bang can be one second old. If that is true, what do you mean EXACTLY, saying there were 24 hours separating the intervals ?

There's a difference between HAVING a disability, and throwing it around as an excuse.
I don't know if my disability is an excuse, I'm not even sure if I have a disability, but if I did why is it so hard for you to accept it and try to be a little more respectful of the fact that I don't have the ability to take assumptions and make them facts as you keep doing.

I would think anyone telling you something takes 24 hours is basing his description of 24 hours upon what he thinks 24 hours is relative to you.
24 hours will always be 24 hours relative to you no matter what speed you go at. 10 years from today if you were traveling at near c, 24 hours will still be 24 hours relative to you.

There is no other way to describe 144 hours to a primitive person that only knows the objective 24 hour day as sunrise to sunrise. How else would you have explained 144 hours to them? Would you use seconds, minutes, days, weeks or years?
They probably cant fathom a second or minute. A week would be less accurate and a year worst.

Maybe I don't understand the question.
What exactly are you asking?
Do you really want to know why? I can't say, I wasn't there. I can only make an educated guess based on the knowledge I have.
How is knowing why they said "days" important in determining the age of the universe?
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16-03-2016, 08:30 PM (This post was last modified: 16-03-2016 08:45 PM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: The Universe can be 6 days old
(16-03-2016 08:23 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(16-03-2016 08:01 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I am not using my disorder to gain attention. I am pointing out that I am unable to understand your logic when you use assumptions that I haven't agreed to. It's an appeal to you and everyone else to please use another approach when communicating with me because I don't have this ability.

Yes, you do.

I also have Asperger's.
Well in that case you have a different type of Aspergers than I do, because I am totally unable at this point in my life to count anything as a fact if all I have is an assumption based on a lack of evidence.

Seeing that you have Aspergers but still have the ability to accept something as a fact based on an assumption without clear evidence, maybe you might be able to explain to me the following:

How does the word "brings" assume intent?
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/bring?s=t

See the parts I bolded out.
Does the medication, the letter or the lamp have intent?

verb (used with object), brought, bringing.
1.
to carry, convey, conduct, or cause (someone or something) to come with, to, or toward the speaker:
Bring the suitcase to my house. He brought his brother to my office.
2.
to cause to come to or toward oneself; attract:
Her scream brought the police. He brought honor to his family by his heroism.
3.
to cause to occur or exist:
The medication brought instant relief.

4.
to cause to come into a particular position, state, or effect:
to bring the car to a stop.
5.
to cause to appear or occur in the mind; evoke or recall:
The letter brought her memories of youth.

6.
to persuade, convince, compel, or induce:
She couldn't bring herself to sell the painting.
7.
to sell for; fetch:
These lamps will bring a good price.

8.
Law. to commence:
to bring an action for damages.

Here is another one for you. "This rock brings me memories"

I really hope you can help me figure this one out btw. If you can I will be one step closer to being normal I think.
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16-03-2016, 08:47 PM
RE: The Universe can be 6 days old
(16-03-2016 08:30 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Well in that case you have a different type of Aspergers than I do

Or, more likely, your inability to follow the conversation is due to something else entirely, because Asperger's has absolutely nothing to do with your ability to comprehend a simple line of reasoning, even if you don't agree with the underlying assumptions. And it certainly doesn't prevent you from making assumptions of your own, as the rest of your post makes perfectly clear.

To put it bluntly, you're thicker'n a two-by-four, son. And that ain't your Asperger's fault.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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16-03-2016, 08:58 PM (This post was last modified: 16-03-2016 09:05 PM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: The Universe can be 6 days old
(16-03-2016 08:47 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(16-03-2016 08:30 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Well in that case you have a different type of Aspergers than I do

Or, more likely, your inability to follow the conversation is due to something else entirely, because Asperger's has absolutely nothing to do with your ability to comprehend a simple line of reasoning, even if you don't agree with the underlying assumptions. And it certainly doesn't prevent you from making assumptions of your own, as the rest of your post makes perfectly clear.

To put it bluntly, you're thicker'n a two-by-four, son. And that ain't your Asperger's fault.
How can I comprehend a line of reasoning that does not make logical sense?

The word "bring" does not imply intent as far as the definition is concerned. If it does I cannot see it.
A rock can bring memories but the rock has no intent.

How is he able to find logic in the statement "the word 'brings' implies intent"
You seem to know how. Why don't you just tell me bro? My fellow Aspergers brother.

I have no issues with assumptions my friend. I have issues with using assumptions as facts to base my accepted beliefs on.

I onced developed a way to learn religious theology by assuming a core assumption and then follow from there. It's not that hard to do when you personally don't believe in anything for absolutely certain. The problem with that is I could never arrive at the same conclusions the religious people arrived at even when assuming their core belief as true. This is because the conclusions didn't follow the premise all the way to the end without adding an overwhelming amount of assumptions to accompany the original one. This Is why I remain agnostic until now. It's not that I believe god doesn't exist. It's simply that no one has given me logical reason to believe that God has to exist.
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16-03-2016, 09:02 PM
RE: The Universe can be 6 days old
(16-03-2016 08:26 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I don't know if my disability is an excuse, I'm not even sure if I have a disability, but if I did why is it so hard for you to accept it and try to be a little more respectful of the fact that I don't have the ability to take assumptions and make them facts as you keep doing.

I also have Aspergers. It's not hard to accept. I don't toss it around as an excuse.

(16-03-2016 08:26 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I would think anyone telling you something takes 24 hours is basing his description of 24 hours upon what he thinks 24 hours is relative to you.
24 hours will always be 24 hours relative to you no matter what speed you go at. 10 years from today if you were traveling at near c, 24 hours will still be 24 hours relative to you.

That's what I thought. You said something meaningless, (using the very assumptions you CLAIM you need to examine). 24 hours means nothing in that context. I asked you how that was MEASURED then. You have no answer. If there was no way to measure then, stating a time span is false and meaningless.

(16-03-2016 08:26 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Do you really want to know why? I can't say, I wasn't there. I can only make an educated guess based on the knowledge I have.
How is knowing why they said "days" important in determining the age of the universe?

Are you fucking kidding me ? WHO are you even talking about ? "They" ? YOU said 24 hours. I want to know why you made that claim. I see now you have no reason to say what you did.

So you just said this thing about "6 days" for the hell of it. You had no reason to state that. I actually thought you'd have something. Oh well.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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16-03-2016, 09:07 PM (This post was last modified: 16-03-2016 09:17 PM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: The Universe can be 6 days old
(16-03-2016 09:02 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(16-03-2016 08:26 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I don't know if my disability is an excuse, I'm not even sure if I have a disability, but if I did why is it so hard for you to accept it and try to be a little more respectful of the fact that I don't have the ability to take assumptions and make them facts as you keep doing.

I also have Aspergers. It's not hard to accept. I don't toss it around as an excuse.

(16-03-2016 08:26 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I would think anyone telling you something takes 24 hours is basing his description of 24 hours upon what he thinks 24 hours is relative to you.
24 hours will always be 24 hours relative to you no matter what speed you go at. 10 years from today if you were traveling at near c, 24 hours will still be 24 hours relative to you.

That's what I thought. You said something meaningless, (using the very assumptions you CLAIM you need to examine). 24 hours means nothing in that context. I asked you how that was MEASURED then. You have no answer. If there was no way to measure then, stating a time span is false and meaningless.

(16-03-2016 08:26 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Do you really want to know why? I can't say, I wasn't there. I can only make an educated guess based on the knowledge I have.
How is knowing why they said "days" important in determining the age of the universe?

Are you fucking kidding me ? WHO are you even talking about ? "They" ? YOU said 24 hours. I want to know why you made that claim. I see now you have no reason to say what you did.

So you just said this thing about "6 days" for the hell of it. You had no reason to state that. I actually thought you'd have something. Oh well.
You must have missed the post then (should be around the 5th page when I presented my argument)

Check back you will see this:
"The story goes:
A man once wrote that the catalyst of creation told him that it created the world in 6 days"

So I set out to see if it were possible based on only scientific principles. It's an old biblical story that was told in ancient days to a people that just knew about days mostly. Other aspects of time weren't that well defined I think.

So many people claiming to have Aspergers now. I find it a bit odd that you don't carry the same symptoms as I do. Did you undergo therapy for it? What disadvantages did you have from it?
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16-03-2016, 09:20 PM
RE: The Universe can be 6 days old
(16-03-2016 08:58 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  How can I comprehend a line of reasoning that does not make logical sense?

Very easily, assuming that you can read. Recognizing the flaws is not the same as not understanding what has been said.

But then, that's not what the original comment I made was about, and then...

(16-03-2016 08:58 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  The word "bring" does not imply intent as far as the definition is concerned. If it does I cannot see it.
A rock can bring memories but the rock has no intent.

...you go off on another tangent that has nothing to do with what I said, and, I suspect, very little to do with what anyone else has said either.

Your issue isn't with others' underlying assumptions. It is with your own inability to carry on a coherent conversation without ping-ponging around a dozen different subjects, making assumptions about the other speakers' positions, demanding that they defend statements they never made, and generally failing to understand what logic is, how it works, or how to hold a simple, straightforward conversation without rocketing off down a dozen different tangential corridors.

I don't know if you have Asperger's or not. To be honest, I rather doubt it. But whether you do or not, Asperger's does not do what you say it does. Your inability to participate meaningfully in this discussion is not due to a disorder which primarily affects your face-to-face social skills.

The stupid things you say are entirely your own fault.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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16-03-2016, 09:22 PM
RE: The Universe can be 6 days old
(16-03-2016 09:07 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  So many people claiming to have Aspergers now. I find it a bit odd that you don't carry the same symptoms as I do.

This may be because you don't have Asperger's, and are simply bullshitting. Either way, you certainly don't understand what it is or how it affects people. It is in no way responsible for your difficulty in following the conversation here.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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16-03-2016, 09:27 PM
RE: The Universe can be 6 days old
(16-03-2016 09:07 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(16-03-2016 09:02 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I also have Aspergers. It's not hard to accept. I don't toss it around as an excuse.


That's what I thought. You said something meaningless, (using the very assumptions you CLAIM you need to examine). 24 hours means nothing in that context. I asked you how that was MEASURED then. You have no answer. If there was no way to measure then, stating a time span is false and meaningless.


Are you fucking kidding me ? WHO are you even talking about ? "They" ? YOU said 24 hours. I want to know why you made that claim. I see now you have no reason to say what you did.

So you just said this thing about "6 days" for the hell of it. You had no reason to state that. I actually thought you'd have something. Oh well.
You must have missed the post then (should be around the 5th page when I presented my argument)

Check back you will see this:
"The story goes:
A man once wrote that the catalyst of creation told him that it created the world in 6 days"

So I set out to see if it were possible based on only scientific principles. It's an old biblical story that was told in ancient days to a people that just knew about days mostly. Other aspects of time weren't that well defined I think.

So many people claiming to have Aspergers now. I find it a bit odd that you don't carry the same symptoms as I do. Did you undergo therapy for it? What disadvantages did you have from it?

There is no such thing as Asperger's any more. It's no longer a valid diagnosis. It's "Autism Spectrum disorder" now. It manifests in many ways. For me it's a positive. Made me very good at a few things. It's not a disadvantage to me.

I saw your thing about "A man once wrote" ....
YOU said there were some expansionary periods, separated by 24 hours.
I knew you made it up. You never thought about what the 24 hour thing actually meant, (or "outside" spacetime). It's why, on day one,
I told you, you are a presuppositionalist. You CLAIM you don't accept things others assume.
Well, .... Consider

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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