The Very Begining
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28-05-2011, 10:51 AM
 
The Very Begining
Hey! Big Grin
I'm Sum, I'm 15 years old and confused. I've been wondering what is the best possible theory of the origin of the universe. Y'know? Since we're all atheists. I just wanted to know since I don't know.

I've been given a theory about how the world started with a big bang. At first, I was like, ha! Total B.S, God created the universe! (I was a theist at that time) But then, I finally opened my eyes to reality and found out that there is no god. So I would like to refresh my view of the world on how it started.

So I came up with this:
If the world started from nothing (this nothingness is just an idea on which I've thought of due to retracing everything back to energy), then there would be no laws and everything would be possible. In this scenario, the absence of matter gave presence to anti-matter. The complete nothingness then created matter randomly (since it was possible because there where no laws forbidding it to happen). Thus, the collision of anti-matter and matter which created the big bang and so on.

Please enlighten me on how the world started. Or at least tell me if the theory I came up with is plausible or not.

Thanks Smile
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28-05-2011, 11:05 AM
 
RE: The Very Begining
I think Neil deGrasse Tyson can explain this best:


If not in this video, there are plenty of him out there that are shorter. He is, in my opinion, the best conveyor of science since carl sagan Smile

About a universe from nothing, lawrence krauss has a video on this that's great, though a bit long:


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28-05-2011, 11:17 AM
 
RE: The Very Begining
@helland

sorry Sad I couldn't pay straight attention to what Tyson was saying. I still have the attention span of a squirrel. I would stare at a lava lamp all day than to listen to my Math teacher. I'm really sorry. As for the second video, it takes forever to load.

Kindly, explain in this forum. Y'know? Without the videos. Unless you have some animated ones that'll keep me entertained Big Grin
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28-05-2011, 12:20 PM
RE: The Very Begining
I'ill try to be short so you can pay attention:Smile

-there is an almost infinitely dense and almost infinitely little piece of matter in an almost infinitely small piece of space.
-whatever was before this, does not have a sign, or anything that remained from it so we'll probably never know.
-so this "almost point" was probably in an unstable state. It is most likely that all known physical laws were one, and all known particles were one. There were also 10 space dimensions (?)
-Then this stuff exploded and started to inflate (?). From the size of a proton it got to the size of an orange in an unimaginably small amount of time, then it's inflation slowed down (?). 5 out of 9 space dimensions curved up into being immeasurably small.(?)
-Matter was loosing energy as space expanded, and spontaneous symmetry violations occurred: matter-energy started to become either matter or energy. Some matter turned into some particles other matter turned into other particles.
-It was hot, so stuff radiated.
-Atomic nuclei formed.
-Atoms formed
-Molecules formed
-Starts formed
-Planets formed
-Theist formed to deny everything above.
-Edwin Hubble formed to discover that stuff is going away from us: that is to say the universe still expands.
-He also predicted a background radiation, witch was later discovered and then mapped in details.

About your point, I'm just addressing this statement, since your whole picture is unclear to me:

"In this scenario, the absence of matter gave presence to anti-matter"
If there would be fundamental misunderstanding from your part: Matter and antimatter are perfectly equal. If someone lived on an anti-matter planet, he would call our matter anti-matter, and his matter matter and he would still be perfectly right.

I hope I could help

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28-05-2011, 12:23 PM
 
RE: The Very Begining
There is a lot of evidence for the big bang, but I suppose the two most prominent facts are:
  • The universe is expanding.
  • The Cosmic microwave background radiation.

These are observed facts that can’t be denied and from them we draw implications based on what we know of the physical universe, which has led to the big bang theory.

If the universe is expanding, that means things were closer together in the past. At one point everything was so close together that it was basically all in one big soup. As we knew (approximately) the rate of expansion and how far away thing are, we could calculate when everything was crammed together, and there we have the age of the universe.

One thing we also know is that when the density is high enough, the temperature also gets higher, and when the temperature is high enough matter tend to ionize. This means that at a very early time matter was crammed together and ionized, but at one point the temperature went down enough for protons and electrons to bind together and break the ionization.
The thing about this ionized soup is that it is opaque. Light cannot travel through it very far, but when it was no longer ionized, it was no longer opaque and light could travel freely in every direction. This light (created by the high temperatures) was scattered throughout the universe and is still traversing it everywhere.
We call this light the background radiation. It is an observed fact. We are literally observing light from the early universe, telling us this early dense ionized soup did in fact exist.

Now that we know for a fact what took place at this point, we can go back in time by looking at what we know of physical conditions in such an environment. We know that as we go back in time, the density increases, which also mean the temperature goes up. At one point the temperature is high enough for nuclear fusion (nucleosynthesis), go even further back and it gets hot enough for electrons to form (leptogenesis) and baryons (baryogenesis, it’s here you find the problems with creation of matter and antimatter). These are things we know will happen should the temperature get this high, because it’s been observed in particle accelerators.
There are very interesting things we think happened even earlier than this, like inflation, electroweak unification and grand unification, but you can look those up if you’re interested Smile (out of these only the electroweak unification has been observed, the rest is only hypothesized).
Now! Before this it becomes interesting. Here the laws of physics break down, in the so-called planck epoch. To understand what came before this, we need a quantum theory of gravity, which we don’t have. Because we don’t know, anything you hear of what came before this is pure speculation. God, multiverse, strings, branes, infinite inflation, oscillating universe are all speculations, some with better reasoning than others Tongue

I’m sorry it became a little long. It’s a complex theory and the shorter you want it explained the harder it becomes to explain without doing it wrong. Undecided

I guess you can add the theory you came up with to the list I mentioned above, but like the others, it’s all speculation until we have empirical evidence to back it up. Wink
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28-05-2011, 08:53 PM
 
RE: The Very Begining
(28-05-2011 12:20 PM)TheSelfishGene Wrote:  About your point, I'm just addressing this statement, since your whole picture is unclear to me:

"In this scenario, the absence of matter gave presence to anti-matter"
If there would be fundamental misunderstanding from your part: Matter and antimatter are perfectly equal. If someone lived on an anti-matter planet, he would call our matter anti-matter, and his matter matter and he would still be perfectly right.

I hope I could help

yeah but i think i watched it somewhere in BBC that nothingness is the absence of matter. And like, less matter has the more probability of anti-matter being present.
Anyway, my point is still there. Because there where no laws anti-matter and matter could just randomly pop into existence at any given time. Which caused the big bang.

I'm not saying I don't believe in the big bang but I'm only trying to find an answer on how it was possible that a matter with infinite density just popped out. And above was the explanation I came up with.

(28-05-2011 12:23 PM)helland Wrote:  Now! Before this it becomes interesting. Here the laws of physics break down, in the so-called planck epoch. To understand what came before this, we need a quantum theory of gravity, which we don’t have. Because we don’t know, anything you hear of what came before this is pure speculation. God, multiverse, strings, branes, infinite inflation, oscillating universe are all speculations, some with better reasoning than others Tongue

I’m sorry it became a little long. It’s a complex theory and the shorter you want it explained the harder it becomes to explain without doing it wrong. Undecided

I guess you can add the theory you came up with to the list I mentioned above, but like the others, it’s all speculation until we have empirical evidence to back it up. Wink

Haha thanks Big Grin, but is there any flaw to what I've made up? Like, does it at all violate any law?
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28-05-2011, 11:25 PM
RE: The Very Begining
Lets do this in SONG!! Big Grin



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“Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.” ~ Gautama Buddha
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29-05-2011, 07:45 AM
RE: The Very Begining
If you like reading, there is an excellent, easy-to-ready book called "Big Bang: The Origin of the Universe" by Simon Singh that I would highly recommend. It's not too technical and explains the whole thing in an easy to follow narrative. You can probably pick up a paperback copy of Amazon for $10 or so.

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29-05-2011, 09:02 AM
 
RE: The Very Begining
(29-05-2011 07:45 AM)BnW Wrote:  You can probably pick up a paperback copy of Amazon for $10 or so.

LOL, I don't have a credit card yet. I'm only 15, I have to ask my parents for money for that stuff. I don't think they would like the idea of me reading a book that will get me more into atheism. My dad's Texan so it's a big deal if his son is an atheist. My mom on the other hand is Filipina so it's also a big problem if I'm an atheist. Undecided
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29-05-2011, 09:22 AM
RE: The Very Begining
I am a big proponent of being a "young determined skeptic." I'd really like to see you apply some of that determination by working through your difficulties with attention span. Hell, I'm 35 and i still have the attention span of toilet paper! So I totally get how it's tough to sit through long explainations. But if you really want to grasp some theories, you just have to suck it up, and do your best to pay attention. It might help to watch some videos more than once. Seems redundant, but in the end it will help you to put the pieces together.

Give it another shot, then try to come up with some specific questions about what you are having trouble getting a handle on. Noone is going to be able to hand you a simple, quick explaination of the big bang, but if you really want to grasp the theory, it will become more interesting as you begin to understand it better.

Good for you for asking the questions, now work hard on understanding the answers. I'm always so happy to see young people seeking truth! Glad to have you here.

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