The Vietnam War
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26-05-2013, 04:35 PM
RE: The Vietnam War
(23-05-2013 09:28 AM)morlock Wrote:  The fact is, that most had no idea of why we were there.

"I ain't got no quarrel with them Viet Congs..." - Cassius Clay becoming Muhammad Ali. (1966).

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
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26-05-2013, 05:10 PM
RE: The Vietnam War
Today the members of the US military have all volunteered for service. Total choice on their part. They met the requirements and signed on the dotted line while pledging to protect and to fight for America...even nimrods like I&I. Thankfully there are people willing to do this.

During the Vietnam war, there was no choice...no good choices anyway. Some guys enlisted anyway out of a feeling of duty or out of figuring they were going to get drafted anyway. Some people left the country rather than serve. Some took more drastic measures to avoid service. The draft was a scary thing. What number did you get, what number did your friend, your brother, your son get? A lot of guys didn't have the ability to get out it with a college deferment or because they had other connections. (Check out the protest song 'Fortunate Son').

So you got drafted and you didn't run...you went to MEPS and got all your paperwork and shots. Then you got a few weeks training and were sent off to a country you knew nothing about to fight for/against something that you probably didn't understand. While expecting the enemy to be men...like the war movies about WWI and WWII...you soon found out that you were also targeted by women and children...you hadn't agreed to that. The enemy popped up out of the damn ground! You hadn't been trained for that either.

Should we have been there? At the time, those in power thought we should be. Looking back and saying it was a bad idea or it was a some government conspiracy does no one any good. Saying that everyone that went wanted to go is out and out bullshit.

Speaking as a person, you disgust me I&I. Speaking as a veteran...you are an embarrassment. However, there are people who opt to fight for your right to open your mouth and prove just how fucking stupid you are.

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude.
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26-05-2013, 06:09 PM
The Vietnam War
(26-05-2013 05:10 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Today the members of the US military have all volunteered for service. Total choice on their part. They met the requirements and signed on the dotted line while pledging to protect and to fight for America...even nimrods like I&I. Thankfully there are people willing to do this.

During the Vietnam war, there was no choice...no good choices anyway. Some guys enlisted anyway out of a feeling of duty or out of figuring they were going to get drafted anyway. Some people left the country rather than serve. Some took more drastic measures to avoid service. The draft was a scary thing. What number did you get, what number did your friend, your brother, your son get? A lot of guys didn't have the ability to get out it with a college deferment or because they had other connections. (Check out the protest song 'Fortunate Son').

So you got drafted and you didn't run...you went to MEPS and got all your paperwork and shots. Then you got a few weeks training and were sent off to a country you knew nothing about to fight for/against something that you probably didn't understand. While expecting the enemy to be men...like the war movies about WWI and WWII...you soon found out that you were also targeted by women and children...you hadn't agreed to that. The enemy popped up out of the damn ground! You hadn't been trained for that either.

Should we have been there? At the time, those in power thought we should be. Looking back and saying it was a bad idea or it was a some government conspiracy does no one any good. Saying that everyone that went wanted to go is out and out bullshit.

Speaking as a person, you disgust me I&I. Speaking as a veteran...you are an embarrassment. However, there are people who opt to fight for your right to open your mouth and prove just how fucking stupid you are.

Looking over 3 million killed in Vietnam is a disgust and anyone that can overlook that is nothing but horrible. The online way of disagreeing or dismissing an idea is to attack the poster. Attacking someone personally for bringing up the idea that 3 million were killed is a way dismissing it. 3 million Vietnamese were killed, and I don't give a mother fuck what emotional issues joe blow has for taking part in the massacre. Oh you mean killing 3 million people causes emotion distress? Who fucking cares, they were murderers and war criminals taking part in a war crime.

Consider how totally insane you sound. I am supposed to have sympathy on people's problems after participating in killing 3 million people, that is fucking disgusting and a total cunt move. Do people care about the emotional stress of nazi soldiers? Of course not as we shouldn't, care about any mass murdering assholes "emotional stress"

What a fucking joke.
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26-05-2013, 06:52 PM
RE: The Vietnam War
What part of they weren't given a choice escapes your tiny mind?

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude.
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26-05-2013, 07:25 PM
RE: The Vietnam War
I never know how I'm going to post on one of your threads IandI. Because I flip a coin over whether I'll be serious, or not so much! Lets see.....flip.......

Mmmm. Allright; this is all you need to know about The Vietnam War



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26-05-2013, 07:30 PM
The Vietnam War
What part of 11 years in before a draft do you not understand? The u.s. starting in 59 were sending soldiers to train the government how to torture assassinate and weed out insurgents, as this does not work the u.s. starts to send more and more soldiers to Vietnam. Not until 1970 (the last month of (1969) did the u.s. do the draft lottery. The war ended 5 years after that. What is your excuse for people who voluntarily sign up to be in the u.s. military.

And did you really say that people in the military defend me? How so? By pissing people off and causing them to hate me? Is that how they protect me?
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26-05-2013, 08:04 PM
RE: The Vietnam War
Sadly, they do defend your sorry ass.

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude.
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26-05-2013, 08:37 PM
RE: The Vietnam War
(26-05-2013 06:09 PM)I and I Wrote:  Looking over 3 million killed in Vietnam is a disgust and anyone that can overlook that is nothing but horrible. The online way of disagreeing or dismissing an idea is to attack the poster. Attacking someone personally for bringing up the idea that 3 million were killed is a way dismissing it. 3 million Vietnamese were killed, and I don't give a mother fuck what emotional issues joe blow has for taking part in the massacre. Oh you mean killing 3 million people causes emotion distress? Who fucking cares, they were murderers and war criminals taking part in a war crime.

Consider how totally insane you sound. I am supposed to have sympathy on people's problems after participating in killing 3 million people, that is fucking disgusting and a total cunt move. Do people care about the emotional stress of nazi soldiers? Of course not as we shouldn't, care about any mass murdering assholes "emotional stress"

What a fucking joke.

Maybe take a deep breath or two, I and I. Doesn't seem to me like anyone's been saying what you say they've seemed to.

Weigh in here to clear it up for me, guys, 'cause now I'm wondering. Anyone here overlooking the immense suffering, oppressive colonial legacy, and political pawn status of the Vietnamese people? Anyone? Anyone not bothered by the complicity of the major world powers in creating and perpetuating the situation?

Do you have a source on the 3 million figure? Offhand - yes, I don't have a source right now either Rolleyes - I've seen quotes up to ~500,000 for deaths by US actions in Indochina. And of course that is shitty. Similar numbers for North vs South casualties (and the concurrent civil wars in Laos and Cambodia). That (by highballing already high estimates) get you 3 million, but not in Vietnam alone. Maybe you're counting the Khmer Rouge dead, which I guess is at least kind of arguable - but you did say just Vietnamese. So maybe you're counting all the Ranch Hand exposure effects?

Me, I'm more of the opinion that we should care about everyone's "emotional stress". The way I see it, compassion for ALL human beings, regardless of circumstances - murderers and criminals included - is towards the higher end of the scale of human virtues.
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26-05-2013, 09:07 PM
RE: The Vietnam War
(26-05-2013 07:30 PM)I and I Wrote:  What part of 11 years in before a draft do you not understand? The u.s. starting in 59 were sending soldiers to train the government how to torture assassinate and weed out insurgents, as this does not work the u.s. starts to send more and more soldiers to Vietnam. Not until 1970 (the last month of (1969) did the u.s. do the draft lottery. The war ended 5 years after that. What is your excuse for people who voluntarily sign up to be in the u.s. military.

Not quite. Selective Service and the registration had served as a backup system to fuel the US Armed Forces since 1948. During both peace and wartime conflict men were drafted to fill vacancies in the armed forces which could not be filled through voluntary means.

Here's the kicker- the lottery drawing - the first since 1942 - was held on December 1, 1969. Why? Consider Could it be that no one was volunteering? Don't know why not - everything was going so fucking great in Vietnam. Shit, I saw it every time I turned on the TV - you'd think it was practically fuckin' Disneyland.

When no one wanted to go, the backup system made certain people went. It was all fair and square though, right? A young man within the 18-26 age range, who's number came up, could qualify for a student deferment provided he could show he was a full-time student making satisfactory progress toward a degree. Many young men within the age range, who weren't able to afford or get into college or head to Canada, were drafted.

As for the lottery, any birthdate year between 1944 and 1950 were assigned lottery number 1. The drawing continued until all days of the year had been matched to lottery numbers. But it wasn't just that 1st year, the next year's happy contestants' birthday's were between 1945 and 1951. And you still might go the next year because if you didn't go due to deferment, your number was thrown back into the pool. The manpower each successive year was continually added to.

On July 7, 1971, the voting age was dropped from 21 to 18. It would be another 2 years before the draft was discontinued in '73 and still another 2 years before the April 30, fall of Saigon in 1975.

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27-05-2013, 05:17 AM
RE: The Vietnam War
(26-05-2013 07:30 PM)I and I Wrote:  What part of 11 years in before a draft do you not understand? The u.s. starting in 59 were sending soldiers to train the government how to torture assassinate and weed out insurgents, as this does not work the u.s. starts to send more and more soldiers to Vietnam. Not until 1970 (the last month of (1969) did the u.s. do the draft lottery. The war ended 5 years after that. What is your excuse for people who voluntarily sign up to be in the u.s. military.

And did you really say that people in the military defend me? How so? By pissing people off and causing them to hate me? Is that how they protect me?

Your misunderstanding and ignorance of history continues to lead you to false conclusions.

The draft lottery was not the beginning of the draft.

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