The Vietnam War
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27-05-2013, 11:52 AM
The Vietnam War
(27-05-2013 05:17 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(26-05-2013 07:30 PM)I and I Wrote:  What part of 11 years in before a draft do you not understand? The u.s. starting in 59 were sending soldiers to train the government how to torture assassinate and weed out insurgents, as this does not work the u.s. starts to send more and more soldiers to Vietnam. Not until 1970 (the last month of (1969) did the u.s. do the draft lottery. The war ended 5 years after that. What is your excuse for people who voluntarily sign up to be in the u.s. military.

And did you really say that people in the military defend me? How so? By pissing people off and causing them to hate me? Is that how they protect me?

Your misunderstanding and ignorance of history continues to lead you to false conclusions.

The draft lottery was not the beginning of the draft.

The topic is Vietnam, hence posts will logically refer to Vietnam, hence my comment that the draft lottery started in 69 wasn't referring to other wars, because title of the thread fucking Vietnam.
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27-05-2013, 11:53 AM
RE: The Vietnam War
(27-05-2013 11:52 AM)I and I Wrote:  
(27-05-2013 05:17 AM)Chas Wrote:  Your misunderstanding and ignorance of history continues to lead you to false conclusions.

The draft lottery was not the beginning of the draft.

The topic is Vietnam, hence posts will logically refer to Vietnam, hence my comment that the draft lottery started in 69 wasn't referring to other wars, because title of the thread fucking Vietnam.

Draft is draft, lottery or not.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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27-05-2013, 04:06 PM (This post was last modified: 27-05-2013 04:13 PM by Julius.)
RE: The Vietnam War
(26-05-2013 05:10 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Should we have been there? At the time, those in power thought we should be. Looking back and saying it was a bad idea or it was a some government conspiracy does no one any good.

Why not? There are still a lot of people in this country that think that Vietnam was a noble effort gone astray - they are all too willing to gloss over the tragedy that America created, and they would never, ever consider that maybe America wasn't the "Good Guy" in this war.

There are others that think America could have one that conflict had out soldiers "Been allowed to fight" so-to-speak. They think if we could have been a little more brutal and killed a few more peasants, then we would have been victorious.

There are other deluded people who think we could have invaded North Vietnam to insure success! Ask the Chinese how well that worked out for them in 1979!

What so many Americans have failed to grasp is that Vietnam had one of the most successful armies of the 20th Century. During the 20th Century, from 1940 -to- 1979, the Vietnamese beat the Japanese, the French, the British, the United States, the Cambodians and China - in that order (and throw in troops from Australia, New Zealand, South Korea and Thailand, too). Too bad the NAZIs didn't show up for I am sure the Vietnamese would have worked them over, too.

Of course, some will claim,. "No ways! The United States didn't lose for they won every Battle!" Bull Shit!

I'll show you how history will know the United States lost the Vietnam War and that the Vietnam War was NOT a Noble Cause:

[Image: 1487512_orig.jpg?0]

A BLACK GASH IN THE GROUND SURROUNDED BY WAILING SOLDIERS IS NOT A MONUMENT TO VICTORY OR A NOBLE CAUSE. (Oh yeah, and hasn't someone told this sniveling dork the war is over and he can take off his soldier costume?)


Now...the day this country figures out how a bunch of poor peasents stomped them in a war will be the day this country matures a notch and stops getting itself involved in stupid, needless and expensive wars. And that's why we should keep talking.
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27-05-2013, 05:09 PM
RE: The Vietnam War
Oh, please do...I&I needs all the help he can get bashing the US.

See here they are, the bruises, some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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27-05-2013, 05:38 PM
RE: The Vietnam War
(27-05-2013 04:06 PM)Julius Wrote:  
(26-05-2013 05:10 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Should we have been there? At the time, those in power thought we should be. Looking back and saying it was a bad idea or it was a some government conspiracy does no one any good.

Why not? There are still a lot of people in this country that think that Vietnam was a noble effort gone astray - they are all too willing to gloss over the tragedy that America created, and they would never, ever consider that maybe America wasn't the "Good Guy" in this war.

In a vacuum I'd still say that South Vietnam was better than North Vietnam. For 'better' read 'a bit less oppressively awful to its people'. Course, a political vacuum is even more elusive than a physical one... If the US had never been involved, the North would have rolled down to Saigon 15 years earlier (or 20, or 25) and a LOT fewer people would be dead (yeah, they'd've purged probably hundreds of thousands, but you gotta break a few eggs to make the glorious people's revolutionary omelette, right?). In hindsight that's still a much better outcome, but it's not like people knew, in the 1950s, what the endgame would be.

(27-05-2013 04:06 PM)Julius Wrote:  What so many Americans have failed to grasp is that Vietnam had one of the most successful armies of the 20th Century. During the 20th Century, from 1940 -to- 1979, the Vietnamese beat the Japanese, the French, the British, the United States, the Cambodians and China - in that order (and throw in troops from Australia, New Zealand, South Korea and Thailand, too).
True. And it wasn't that they were a brilliant straight up fighting force; it was that they were smart enough not to get into a straight up fight. An effectively infinite source of manpower and small arms, plus logistical impunity thanks to local sympathy, can and will make an occupier's life hell for as long as it takes.

It's a good thing the Americans learned their lessons, and never, ever got into a similar situation ever again.

(27-05-2013 04:06 PM)Julius Wrote:  Too bad the NAZIs didn't show up for I am sure the Vietnamese would have worked them over, too.
Never fear, idiotic television has got you covered. Prepare to lose whatever brain cells you've got left.


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27-05-2013, 08:06 PM
RE: The Vietnam War
(27-05-2013 05:38 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Never fear, idiotic television has got you covered. Prepare to lose whatever brain cells you've got left.



I watched it. You're right, I think it did kill some of my brain cells...or maybe a lot of them.
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27-05-2013, 08:08 PM
RE: The Vietnam War
I've seen some of those deadliest warrior videos before.
The best way to describe them is to just facepalm.

I don't talk gay, I don't walk gay, it's like people don't even know I'm gay unless I'm blowing them.
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27-05-2013, 08:49 PM (This post was last modified: 27-05-2013 08:52 PM by JAH.)
RE: The Vietnam War
As someone who was eligible to be drafted during the Vietnam war I can say with assurance that people were being drafted into the military prior to the lottery. The lottery was actually a way to eliminate deferments. It no longer mattered if you were a student or had any other deferment you were now draft eligible unless you caught a good number. Mine was 134 and I joined the reserves to avoid being sent to Vietnam. Never did find out if my draft board got to that number and never will. 6 years of my life impacted, but I was at least not shot at.

Not quite sure what I and I is trying to get at. Yes a lot of innocents were killed in a useless war. As far as that goes agent orange deaths continue.

I do not think any thinking american who experienced that war on any level believes it was a good idea. I also must say that anyone who thinks it was a winnable war are deluded. Rather like thinking our efforts in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya or Syria are positive and will leave positive results.

PS I had to walk away from the Vietnam memorial because I started to cry.
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28-05-2013, 05:23 AM
RE: The Vietnam War
What is this lottery you people are referring too?

I don't talk gay, I don't walk gay, it's like people don't even know I'm gay unless I'm blowing them.
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28-05-2013, 01:40 PM
RE: The Vietnam War
The political aspect of Indochina at the time was also not understood. Since WW1 Ho Chi Minh and others were organizing communist groups and in the 30's heading a very large nationalist/communist party that encompassed all of indochina. By the time the U.S. got involved the U.S. was mainly fighting a fraction of man power available to the communists in Indochina.This was not a legal organization under colonial rule so many of these leaders had to use pen names so they wouldn't get arrested hence Ho Chi Minh is not Ho Chi Minh. Ho is a chinese name that was taken in order to be able to slip in and out of the chinese border.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho_Chi_Minh One of the greatest men to ever live....... next to me Drinking Beverage
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