The Virgin Birth
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28-07-2014, 08:18 AM
The Virgin Birth
I'm pretty sure this topic has been touched on many of times but I had a question about virgin birth specifically the one of Jesus.

First off the only way to test if a woman was a virgin back then was by word until her wedding day if the sheets had blood during consummation. She was only promised to Joseph and was not yet married so how could they be sure. Even Joseph wasn't buying it at first.


Matthew 1:19
Because Joseph her husband was faithful to the law, and yet did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly.



Secondly in order for a human female to become pregnant a working egg and sperm cell have to adhere. Without that it's physical not possible to produce an offspring. It's more believable that she did step out and conceived a bastard son and it seems the only thing that saved her was Joseph having a dream saying differently.

Lastly, Technically Mary and Joseph were not yet married. So what's up with this having to be married to have kids crap? Of course I know it does make life a lot more simple have a structured household but hell you telling me that situation wasn't a little awkward for Joseph. What happened when the baby slipped and called him dad the first time and Joseph corrected him? How awkward would it be when Jesus attended school and tried to explain that Joseph wasn't his father but God was? Seeing as no one had heard of a virgin birth before then(or after for that matter) I bet most just thought he was a little slow.

Now that I think about it that's how I think of Jesus. The town crazy guy making claims of course he had a following because naturally we're sheep but the bulk of the people probably shrugged him off. What else do you expect when your whore of a mom covered up her cheating with a grand claim of you being the son of God(which we're all children of God so I don't even get that claim)
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28-07-2014, 10:19 AM
RE: The Virgin Birth
How about the entire story having more holes than the men's room stalls at a San Francisco airport?
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28-07-2014, 10:44 AM
RE: The Virgin Birth
(28-07-2014 10:19 AM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  How about the entire story having more holes than the men's room stalls at a San Francisco airport?


^^^^^^^

Now THATS funny! Tongue Yes Thumbsup

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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28-07-2014, 10:56 AM
RE: The Virgin Birth
hehe think about how funny that is; the whole myth that led to a 1.8+ billion people delusional belief system based on a party foul cover story...*gasp* "I am pregnant?...no no honey, it was an angel, truly, we are blessed!

[Image: ae2oup.jpg]

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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28-07-2014, 12:06 PM
RE: The Virgin Birth
(28-07-2014 08:18 AM)MrKrispy601 Wrote:  I'm pretty sure this topic has been touched on many of times but I had a question about virgin birth specifically the one of Jesus.


Secondly in order for a human female to become pregnant a working egg and sperm cell have to adhere. Without that it's physical not possible to produce an offspring. It's more believable that she did step out and conceived a bastard son.

You are correct. We have discussed this topic ad nauseum. However, its always good to refresh the topic for newcomers. To put it on a technical footing, human virgin birth is impossible because of the following (I copied and pasted from an answer I posted here and elsewhere):

If Jesus was born of a virgin, from where did he get his full complement of forty-six chromosomes? After all, if he was born of a virgin, he could only have inherited his mother’s twenty-three chromosomes, which would not have resulted in a viable human embryo.

Could Jesus have been born as a result of the process of parthenogenesis, a form of asexual reproduction? In this situation, an embryo can grow from a haploid female gamete by the doubling of the genetic complement before or after meiosis, but before cell division occurs. Other mechanisms of parthenogenesis are also known whereby the embryo is not a genetic clone of its parent. Parthenogenesis can occur in animals as high in the evolutionary ladder as the vertebrates. For example, parthenogenesis has been recorded in reptiles, fish, and even some birds.

In other words, parthenogenesis works by the cloning of the DNA of a diploid (non-gamete) cell or the doubling of the DNA complement of a haploid (gamete) cell.

Jesus could not have been a product of parthenogenesis on the part of Mary because, theoretically speaking, in species where female sex determination depends on the presence of two like chromosomes (such as XX for females in humans) the offspring of parthenogenesis must be female. Remember, only a single sex chromosome need be present to be doubled. A 44,YY genotype is non-viable. Admittedly, in species where male sex determination rests on the presence of two like chromosomes (such as ZZ for males in some birds and reptiles), the offspring may be male, because only a single sex chromosome need be inherited and duplicated to form the male genotype. But, there is no documentation that Jesus was a reptile.

Doc
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28-07-2014, 01:49 PM
RE: The Virgin Birth
Does god have DNA?
Does he have a set of balls where his DNA is divided in the process of meiosis?
Human DNA developed over billions of years of evolution. We are cousins of Chimpanzees, cousins of fish, cousins of roses and cousins of bacteria. We are related genetically to all life on Earth. But god isn't. This means Jesus would only in part be related to Adam and Eve and in part not. He is not even human in the biblical sense.

Did god create this Jesus purely out of Mary's DNA? If so it would have been a clone of Mary, definitely a female.

Or is god able to create a fetus out of thin air?
If god can create humans (like he did with Adam) then why go through the hassle of raping Mary? Was god really keen to enter the world through the vagina of a woman?
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28-07-2014, 02:00 PM
RE: The Virgin Birth
(28-07-2014 01:49 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Was god really keen to enter the world through the vagina of a woman?

Why not? Men in general seem really keen to enter vaginas from the other direction (or as someone else put it, "Man comes out of a woman and then spends his whole life trying to get back in").

As long as we're on this tack, I've heard obstetricians defined as "people pulling people out of people."

Big Grin
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28-07-2014, 02:10 PM
RE: The Virgin Birth
You're all forgetting one thing:

Magic.

Checkmate, atheists.

Popcorn I put more thought into fiction than theists put into reality.
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28-07-2014, 02:29 PM
RE: The Virgin Birth
[Image: poor_joseph.jpg]

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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28-07-2014, 02:39 PM
RE: The Virgin Birth
Leave it to me to nerd this up. Weeping
1. The ancients thought the man contributed the ENTIRE baby, (contained in the sperm). A woman was "fertile ground" if a (contributed) baby could be implanted and grow in her womb. There was no notion at the time, of haploid or diploid biology and chromosomes etc. So in that light, it's just a bit less crazy. Gregor Mendel discovered Genetics.
2. It was quite the fad for sons of gods to be born of virgins.
3. However in this case, we know it was a mistranslation :
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...rgin+birth
(post 5)

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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