The Virgin Birth
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28-07-2014, 02:42 PM
RE: The Virgin Birth
(28-07-2014 02:39 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  1. The ancients thought the man contributed the ENTIRE baby, (contained in the sperm). A woman was "fertile ground" if a (contributed) baby could be implanted and grow in her womb. There was no notion at the time, of haploid or diploid biology and chromosomes etc. So in that light, it's just a bit less crazy. Gregor Mendel discovered Genetics.
But didn't we blame the woman if she gave us a succession of girls rather than boys?
Surely it can't have been our fault.
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28-07-2014, 02:49 PM
RE: The Virgin Birth
(28-07-2014 02:42 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(28-07-2014 02:39 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  1. The ancients thought the man contributed the ENTIRE baby, (contained in the sperm). A woman was "fertile ground" if a (contributed) baby could be implanted and grow in her womb. There was no notion at the time, of haploid or diploid biology and chromosomes etc. So in that light, it's just a bit less crazy. Gregor Mendel discovered Genetics.
But didn't we blame the woman if she gave us a succession of girls rather than boys?
Surely it can't have been our fault.

Hmm. I think they though a son was a sign of favor from the gods. I'll have to think about that one. There is more to it. I think they thought the woman contributed something in her blood, the "humors" or her "disposition", but they didn't know about genetics ... (or pregnancy "mixed the blood" or something like that) ... I'll have to read up a little on it.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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28-07-2014, 02:58 PM
RE: The Virgin Birth
(28-07-2014 02:39 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Leave it to me to nerd this up. Weeping
1. The ancients thought the man contributed the ENTIRE baby, (contained in the sperm). A woman was "fertile ground" if a (contributed) baby could be implanted and grow in her womb. There was no notion at the time, of haploid or diploid biology and chromosomes etc. So in that light, it's just a bit less crazy. Gregor Mendel discovered Genetics.

How, exactly, is that less crazy?

Popcorn I put more thought into fiction than theists put into reality.
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28-07-2014, 03:05 PM
RE: The Virgin Birth
(28-07-2014 02:58 PM)CleverUsername Wrote:  
(28-07-2014 02:39 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Leave it to me to nerd this up. Weeping
1. The ancients thought the man contributed the ENTIRE baby, (contained in the sperm). A woman was "fertile ground" if a (contributed) baby could be implanted and grow in her womb. There was no notion at the time, of haploid or diploid biology and chromosomes etc. So in that light, it's just a bit less crazy. Gregor Mendel discovered Genetics.

How, exactly, is that less crazy?

I think he meant something like "less crazy for them to believe that back then" as compared to someone believing it now, when we know so much more about how conception works. They had ignorance as an excuse.
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28-07-2014, 03:16 PM
RE: The Virgin Birth
(28-07-2014 01:49 PM)Stevil Wrote:  If god can create humans (like he did with Adam) then why go through the hassle of raping Mary? Was god really keen to enter the world through the vagina of a woman?

Well, ok ... I didn't want to mention this but uh ... Mary ... was uh ... not the first.

Mary is actually the progeny of god, according to some. Yep. I know.

Mary's mother was impregnated by god so she could give birth to the "clean" vessel for his son's conception. Mary was the immaculate conception.

Technically, this makes Jesus 3 quarters god.

So.
What have we learned today about our incestuous lord and his obsession with spawning a male child? Well yes, we have learned that god seemed to be a serial rapist but, there may be a bigger picture here.

I don't like to drop names but ... someone has pretty much proved powerless ... without a woman around to do the really tough work. Angel

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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28-07-2014, 03:31 PM
RE: The Virgin Birth
(28-07-2014 03:05 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(28-07-2014 02:58 PM)CleverUsername Wrote:  How, exactly, is that less crazy?

I think he meant something like "less crazy for them to believe that back then" as compared to someone believing it now, when we know so much more about how conception works. They had ignorance as an excuse.

Oh, so believing the guy contributed all of the kid was just supposed to be an example of how little they knew? That makes more sense, I thought he was saying something being made with none of the required components was more believable than something being made with half the required components.

Popcorn I put more thought into fiction than theists put into reality.
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28-07-2014, 03:35 PM
RE: The Virgin Birth
There's nothing sensical about it. Immaculate conception is one of the most ridiculous and asinine claims that Christianity has ever made. Sex is bad enough, but sex before marriage? They had to come up with some bullshit for that one.

"Did IQs just drop sharply while I was away?" --Ellen Ripley
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28-07-2014, 04:44 PM
RE: The Virgin Birth
Quote: Immaculate conception is one of the most ridiculous and asinine claims that Christianity has ever made.


Uptight, sexually-repressed, mother fuckers that they were!

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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28-07-2014, 05:01 PM
RE: The Virgin Birth
(28-07-2014 04:44 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  
Quote: Immaculate conception is one of the most ridiculous and asinine claims that Christianity has ever made.


Uptight, sexually-repressed, mother fuckers that they were!

Except it doesn't mean what you think it means. "Immaculate conception" has nothing to do with the physical process of Mary's conception. It simply means that she was conceived without the stain of original sin (which every other human has). Mind you, I don't believe any of this, but that's what the Catholic church teaches.
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28-07-2014, 07:23 PM
RE: The Virgin Birth
Here's another point I brought up elsewhwere in the forum:

Each human ovum is genetically distinct and which ovarian follicle develops into the dominant follicle (which contains the ovum) and which ovary contains the "lucky" follicle appears to be chosen at random. The point is this: if Mary had been impregnated during a different ovarian cycle, would we have had a different Jesus from the one we now know? If it is claimed that there could have been no other alternative, then this suggests God's actions and the timing of his divine plan were constrained by a Jewish peasant girl's menstrual cycle!

It also inevitably follows that Mary was predestined to be born to carry the "lucky" ovum, her parents were predestined to bear her, and so on through all history (see Kim's point above). This means that all history is pre-ordained. God foresaw and planned all of history down to the "lucky" ovum in Mary's ovary, destroying any sense of free will in any of Mary's ancestors.

Fertilization depends on a host of other factors, including the timing of the copulation, the position used, the ambient temperature, and so on and so forth. A minute's delay in ejaculation would have introduced the sperm load in a different configuration, and perhaps a different spermatozoon would have won the race to the ovum. So Mary's mother (named Anna, by common Catholic belief) could never have claimed a "headache" the night that Mary was conceived.

Doc
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