The WORST Debate Between Christians and Atheists Ever
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30-12-2015, 12:44 PM
RE: The WORST Debate Between Christians and Atheists Ever
(30-12-2015 04:10 AM)Thewonderer Wrote:  but I've still got that nagging question about creation.
Do you think there may be a God that created everything but really does not care about the planet or it's inhabitants?
Or do you think it all happened by chance?
What is the definition of a god?
What is it made of?
How can a creator god be made of something if it existed before energy and matter existed?
How can a creator god think or make decisions or take actions before the existence of time?
How can a creator god have knowledge before the existence of information and data, before the existence of observable things?
How can a creator god create or interact with existence?

What information or observation leads you to postulate on the existence of an invisible, unobservable creature with special abilities that are beyond the abilities of all known life forms and beyond the abilities of all forces and physical laws known to humans.
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30-12-2015, 01:36 PM
RE: The WORST Debate Between Christians and Atheists Ever
(30-12-2015 03:41 AM)Banjo Wrote:  
(29-12-2015 06:27 PM)mordant Wrote:  I take your point and in fact I take your advice and don't watch these things because they are really boring. But I do debate on fora like this and the frustration is that despite having logic and reason on our side we don't change many minds and then in a video like this with relatively "professional" debaters you'd think you'd get some instruction in how to do it right or some real inspiration. But it just ends up in another draw.

The only consolation is that it's the same for theists, only slightly more so. Worldwide the number of theists leaving theism is way more than the traffic in the other direction, much as theists would like to think otherwise.

Sometimes I feel like dropping the pastime of eating theists for lunch and having them think nothing has happened, but I do it for the lurkers. There was a time when I was trying to think my way out of the theist straightjacket and I try to make points that I would have appreciated hearing when I was in that state. I'm convinced that most of the people who are really helped by us hashing this stuff out are the ones who mostly don't speak up or engage. I know I was such a lurker at one time, afraid to make my doubt and unbelief real by speaking of them.

I do know a couple people on another forum who used to come in and argue the fundamentalist case and one day couldn't take it any more and caved to the dark side or at least became agnostic theists. But they're pretty rare. Not everyone who leaves theism wants to continue to engage in debate, they would rather forget they were ever that deluded.

Yeah mate I get it. I debated theists for many years. I probably started around age 16 or 17. Cannot be sure. When I had time I administered a site dedicated to the KJV 1611. I had some success. Even managed to turn two Catholic priests into atheists. Now I don't really bother. Life is too short and Voltaire was right about arguing. It's mostly a waste of time.

If there is someone like a physicist debating I'll likely watch it because I am quite uneducated and chances are I'll learn something. Or Hitchens. Mainly because he was so eloquent and I can enjoy his language. He spoke as if writing prose.

But an idiot like William Lane Craig or Sye is just too pathetic. Sadly Hitchens is of course dead. But I still have access to his work. Hitch 22 is full of gorgeous language. One of those books where I can read a sentence a few times. Like good music.

Personally I don't like Hitchens. While he is very eloquent and is one of the greatest practicioners of the English language, I found he often got to emotional and was very insulting (not saying theists aren't guilty of this). I prefer his essays more than his debates for this reason. I tend to prefer Dawkins over Hitch. But then I have very formal ideas when it comes to debates. Most of my favourite debates are before the 50's. I will say that I have not seen much Hitchens, maybe I just got a few bad debates.

I'm homophobic in the same way that I'm arachnophobic. I'm not scared of gay people but I'm going to scream if I find one in my bath.

I'm. Also homophobic in the same way I'm arachnophobic. I'm scared of spiders but I'd still fuck'em.
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30-12-2015, 01:39 PM
RE: The WORST Debate Between Christians and Atheists Ever
@walkingsnake
I know how you feel in regards to the video game idea. That's how I felt while watching the Dawkins 's Cardinal Pell debate. He was horrible. He would not answer a question and then bring up a point that would be even harder to defend.
In terms of best debates, I would go with either Bertrand Russel vs Coppleston or lennox vs Atkins.

I'm homophobic in the same way that I'm arachnophobic. I'm not scared of gay people but I'm going to scream if I find one in my bath.

I'm. Also homophobic in the same way I'm arachnophobic. I'm scared of spiders but I'd still fuck'em.
- my friend Marc
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30-12-2015, 01:58 PM
RE: The WORST Debate Between Christians and Atheists Ever
(30-12-2015 12:44 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(30-12-2015 04:10 AM)Thewonderer Wrote:  but I've still got that nagging question about creation.
Do you think there may be a God that created everything but really does not care about the planet or it's inhabitants?
Or do you think it all happened by chance?
What is the definition of a god?
What is it made of?
How can a creator god be made of something if it existed before energy and matter existed?
How can a creator god think or make decisions or take actions before the existence of time?
How can a creator god have knowledge before the existence of information and data, before the existence of observable things?
How can a creator god create or interact with existence?

What information or observation leads you to postulate on the existence of an invisible, unobservable creature with special abilities that are beyond the abilities of all known life forms and beyond the abilities of all forces and physical laws known to humans.

One more :
How can a creator god (of necessity) "exist" in a Reality, which it is supposed to be the creator of. Existence and non-existence as a part of Reality would have to, at least, be concurrently a part of the Reality in which it must participate.
Therefore, Reality (even with a god), remains unexplained.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein It is objectively immoral to kill innocent babies. Please stick to the guilty babies.
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23-08-2018, 06:15 AM
RE: The WORST Debate Between Christians and Atheists Ever
(29-12-2015 12:06 PM)WalkingSnake Wrote:  The atheists never got the upper hand here. Not once did one of them think to ask the Christians, "Hey, why do YOU think eating babies is wrong? Oh, God says so? Why does God say so? SO.... WHAT?" (referencing another annoying factoid of the night: Jeff's damn "So what?" T-shirt). Turn that bitch around on them. Never once did they point out the main difference between atheists and theists on morality: the fact that "because I said so" is not fucking good enough to determine morality for society.

I hope no one minds a non atheist registering and posting here.
Sorry, maybe I misunderstood what you were trying to say but..
I think there is a difference. And I'm not arguing for 'my belief' (I'm in a period of critical scepticism at the moment by the way so don't put me into any box).
Everything is speculative here. IF there is a God by definition he is not a creature but he is what defines reality itself, He would be the point of reference for everything. IF there is no God (although i don't know how would that be possible logically speaking unless the universe or multiverse (physical reality) was infinite) or there was god AND he/she/it was undefinable (so equal to not actually being there from our perspective) there is nothing wrong or right in the absolute sense with anything.
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23-08-2018, 08:59 AM
RE: The WORST Debate Between Christians and Atheists Ever
(23-08-2018 06:15 AM)Jacobd Wrote:  
(29-12-2015 12:06 PM)WalkingSnake Wrote:  The atheists never got the upper hand here. Not once did one of them think to ask the Christians, "Hey, why do YOU think eating babies is wrong? Oh, God says so? Why does God say so? SO.... WHAT?" (referencing another annoying factoid of the night: Jeff's damn "So what?" T-shirt). Turn that bitch around on them. Never once did they point out the main difference between atheists and theists on morality: the fact that "because I said so" is not fucking good enough to determine morality for society.

I hope no one minds a non atheist registering and posting here.
Sorry, maybe I misunderstood what you were trying to say but..
I think there is a difference. And I'm not arguing for 'my belief' (I'm in a period of critical scepticism at the moment by the way so don't put me into any box).
Everything is speculative here. IF there is a God by definition he is not a creature but he is what defines reality itself, He would be the point of reference for everything. IF there is no God (although i don't know how would that be possible logically speaking unless the universe or multiverse (physical reality) was infinite) or there was god AND he/she/it was undefinable (so equal to not actually being there from our perspective) there is nothing wrong or right in the absolute sense with anything.

I think you need to examine your fundamental premises. You seem to be starting in mid stream. The question of a god existing is not fundamental. You speak of something existing that is not definable but that would mean it has no identity, i.e. it doesn't exist. You need to go back to the beginning and get a clear understanding of the basics. If you understood the concept of existence, causality, concepts, definitions, identity, and knowledge then you would not be confused here.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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23-08-2018, 09:35 AM
RE: The WORST Debate Between Christians and Atheists Ever
(23-08-2018 06:15 AM)Jacobd Wrote:  I hope no one minds a non atheist registering and posting here.

Not at all, but a brief personal bio in the "introductions" forum would've been nice. And more so considering that you've posted here as an agnostic with this one and only comment.

You also need to note that this thread was started nearly three years ago by someone who hasn't posted here for 18 months, so your comment will undoubtedly fall on deaf ears.

If you'd like to further discuss your notions about the existence or non-existence of gods, then please feel free to start a new thread (after you've posted a bit more here).

Quote:Everything is speculative here.

Put briefly, no. There is nothing speculative about gods. Supernatural entities have no empirical evidence supporting their existence.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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