The War on Drugs
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12-07-2014, 04:28 AM
The War on Drugs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bm7lavNF...JYqeSbs4qs

Penn & Teller's show does a lot to explain it pretty well



let the discussion begin
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12-07-2014, 05:01 AM
RE: The War on Drugs
What is there to discuss? There is nothing but learning the grim facts. The government wants to support drug mafia by destroying peaceful competition that could grow drugs for the market. Only the toughest, grimmest criminals are left to gather enormous profits from this government-maintained monopoly. Government gets to control the poorest population and maintain high police and military spending. That sort of thing comes handy when dollar collapses from infinite printing and the whole nation starts rioting.


Interestingly, drugs are only highly addictive to people who's brain chemistry was damaged by abusive childhood, such as is common in lower (and middle) class families.


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12-07-2014, 06:13 AM (This post was last modified: 12-07-2014 06:22 AM by Chas.)
RE: The War on Drugs
(12-07-2014 05:01 AM)Luminon Wrote:  What is there to discuss? There is nothing but learning the grim facts. The government wants to support drug mafia by destroying peaceful competition that could grow drugs for the market. Only the toughest, grimmest criminals are left to gather enormous profits from this government-maintained monopoly. Government gets to control the poorest population and maintain high police and military spending. That sort of thing comes handy when dollar collapses from infinite printing and the whole nation starts rioting.

Or we could look at the history factually and see that your 'explanation' is utterly paranoid and driven by your latest obsessions.

Quote:Interestingly, drugs are only highly addictive to people who's brain chemistry was damaged by abusive childhood, such as is common in lower (and middle) class families.



Oh, bullshit. You are getting crazier every day.

Are those in pain more likely to use drugs? Seems reasonable - show me the study.

There are people who had perfectly lovely childhoods who become addicted to drugs.
There are people whose childhoods were horrific who are not addicted to drugs.

Is there some correlation between misery and addiction? Maybe - show me the study.

Does childhood abuse 'alter brain chemistry'? First you need to define what you mean, then collect the data, then analyze the date. I'll wait. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-07-2014, 06:46 AM (This post was last modified: 12-07-2014 06:50 AM by Luminon.)
RE: The War on Drugs
(12-07-2014 06:13 AM)Chas Wrote:  Or we could look at the history factually and see that your 'explanation' is utterly paranoid and driven by your latest obsessions.
Two words: prohibition and economics Wink

(12-07-2014 06:13 AM)Chas Wrote:  Oh, bullshit. You are getting crazier every day.

Are those in pain more likely to use drugs? Seems reasonable - show me the study.

There are people who had perfectly lovely childhoods who become addicted to drugs.
There are people whose childhoods were horrific who are not addicted to drugs.

Is there some correlation between misery and addiction? Maybe - show me the study.

Does childhood abuse 'alter brain chemistry'? First you need to define what you mean, then collect the data, then analyze the date. I'll wait. Drinking Beverage
And I know a tall Chinese guy! And also a Woman Who Is Not Like That! That's the social world for you, there are exceptions from everything, everything is a continuum. That being said, stow your insults, old man.

Uncle Google is your friend!
This looks like science to me:
http://restorativemedicine.org/journal/a...addiction/
For those who prefer shorter articles:
http://www.thefix.com/content/trauma-and-addiction9180
http://healthland.time.com/2012/08/01/ho...epression/
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12-07-2014, 06:56 AM (This post was last modified: 12-07-2014 07:04 AM by Chas.)
RE: The War on Drugs
(12-07-2014 06:46 AM)Luminon Wrote:  
(12-07-2014 06:13 AM)Chas Wrote:  Or we could look at the history factually and see that your 'explanation' is utterly paranoid and driven by your latest obsessions.
Two words: prohibition and economics Wink

(12-07-2014 06:13 AM)Chas Wrote:  Oh, bullshit. You are getting crazier every day.

Are those in pain more likely to use drugs? Seems reasonable - show me the study.

There are people who had perfectly lovely childhoods who become addicted to drugs.
There are people whose childhoods were horrific who are not addicted to drugs.

Is there some correlation between misery and addiction? Maybe - show me the study.

Does childhood abuse 'alter brain chemistry'? First you need to define what you mean, then collect the data, then analyze the date. I'll wait. Drinking Beverage
And I know a tall Chinese guy! And also a Woman Who Is Not Like That! That's the social world for you, there are exceptions from everything, everything is a continuum. That being said, stow your insults, old man.

Uncle Google is your friend!
This looks like science to me:
http://restorativemedicine.org/journal/a...addiction/
For those who prefer shorter articles:
http://www.thefix.com/content/trauma-and-addiction9180
http://healthland.time.com/2012/08/01/ho...epression/

It's cute that you think 'old man' is a negative. I ask for evidence and you call that an insult.

You are an ignorant child, lacking in experience, wisdom, judgment, and knowledge.

Grow up. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-07-2014, 07:05 AM
RE: The War on Drugs
I can see how people who were abused as children are more likely to use drugs and/or become addicted. I cannot see how drugs could be only addictive to those that were abused as children. Consider

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12-07-2014, 07:15 AM
Re: RE: The War on Drugs
(12-07-2014 07:05 AM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  I can see how people who were abused as children are more likely to use drugs and/or become addicted. I cannot see how drugs could be only addictive to those that were abused as children. Consider

Just lower you standards for counting what abused would be and you'll reach the point of direct connection between two standards.

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12-07-2014, 07:35 AM (This post was last modified: 12-07-2014 07:39 AM by Luminon.)
RE: The War on Drugs
(12-07-2014 07:05 AM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  I can see how people who were abused as children are more likely to use drugs and/or become addicted. I cannot see how drugs could be only addictive to those that were abused as children. Consider

It certainly works with rats.
http://sub.garrytan.com/its-not-the-morp...-addiction
In humans it's probably not that clear-cut, but the truth is, it's difficult to find non-traumatized people in this world. Let's say addiction is several times more likely, or so. It has to do with near-permanently damaged brain chemistry and brain receptors.
Healthy people, used to normal levels of happiness (dopamine) will find alcohol or even morphine a relatively small improvement. People with damaged chemistry will find that drugs make an enormous difference. When they take a drug, they feel normal for the first time in their lives.

Government people have this information available since the 80's. Does that have any effect on the so-called war on drugs? Nope. Thus I must condemn the government as unscientific, anti-rational Dark Age institution. Hell, they didn't even learn from alcohol prohibition and Al Capone, except in the wrong way. They're in the same business, after all.
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12-07-2014, 02:32 PM
RE: The War on Drugs
(12-07-2014 05:01 AM)Luminon Wrote:  Interestingly, drugs are only highly addictive to people who's brain chemistry was damaged by abusive childhood, such as is common in lower (and middle) class families.

This is utter bullshit on so many levels that I have pondered for hours how to even respond.

Rich kids with a swell life aren't susceptible to addiction?

The abuse from my parents affected my siblings and me but in very different ways - why didn't our brain chemistry react in an identical way?

And we were upper class abused kids - where do we fall in your theory?

How much abuse and by whom and for how long?

Nevermind - it's just bullshit. Total and complete bullshit.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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12-07-2014, 05:37 PM
RE: The War on Drugs
(12-07-2014 02:32 PM)Anjele Wrote:  This is utter bullshit on so many levels that I have pondered for hours how to even respond.

Rich kids with a swell life aren't susceptible to addiction?

The abuse from my parents affected my siblings and me but in very different ways - why didn't our brain chemistry react in an identical way?

And we were upper class abused kids - where do we fall in your theory?

How much abuse and by whom and for how long?

Nevermind - it's just bullshit. Total and complete bullshit.
Ah, so you think I said "poor kids = always abuse, rich kids = always healthy and happy"? Is that what you think I wrote? Facepalm

These are questions for yourself and for a therapist. Nevertheless, you react in a very defensive way.
I can only speak from my own experience. The differences are obvious and the similarities can only be seen with enormous amount of self-knowledge and good understanding of psychology.
Me and my brothers are very different. Yet today I can see, our dysfunctional behavior, outwardly different, is driven by the same motivations. I have better self control, more conscience, intellectual tendencies, less physical strength, more introversion and so on than my older brother, but I can be a low-self-esteem irritating coercive asshole just like him, just like our mother, just like our grandmothers, and probably all our mother ancestors back to the bronze age.

If you think differences help you, you can find as many differences as you want. I personally always found similarities vastly more useful.
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