The Worst Religion is Islam?
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23-06-2014, 10:33 AM
RE: The Worst Religion is Islam?
(23-06-2014 09:52 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(23-06-2014 09:41 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  I think now we are hitting on the rise of Nationalism, which is the main difference between Europe and the Islamic areas. For the most part (belgians being the biggest exception) most europeans consider themselves French or English or Italian rather than whatever original tribe they would have descended from. Islamic countries however are not like that, mostly because they are all only 80 years old or so. This of course, like all things, we can blame on the British and their handling of the break-up of the Ottoman empire. The arbitrary divisions seem almost intent on causing longstanding feuds and hostilities by splitting tribes in half across borders and grouping them with historical rivals.

To pull a good example from today's headlines the Kurds were split among 4 countries Iraq,Turkey,Iran, and Syria. They were a minority in each of these countries because of this and have been in open rebellion in some (turkey mostly) for years because of it. Then there is the fact that each of these new countries were handed to a Monarch to do as they pleased and either the countries rebelled and came under the control of a strongman dictator or are still Autocracies rules by a single family.

Okay, okay, okay, now we are getting too far removed from the key element. Next we'll be discussing the why's of the why's of the why's. There is nothing wrong with that, but it's extremely difficult to have that conversation in the forum format. But I cannot resist mentioning the Germans who didn't unify until the late 19th century and nearly broke up again during the Wiemar Republic. Tongue

But there are still two German states (Germany and Austria), and their ethnic unity only came about after WWII and the massive ethnic cleansing population transfers in its aftermath (and there were three German states until 1990). A lot of the rest of western and northern Europe settled those issues in the 19th century, true, but it's the ones that didn't - the Balkans, Poland/Ukraine - which led to so much fun in the last century.
(well; and today, for that matter - "who is/should be Ukrainian, and if they are, then what?" are questions which have killed hundreds in the last few months)

(23-06-2014 09:52 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  So, let's cut closer to the issue. Is there something of the setup, or texts, or rituals, etc. of Islam which causes it to be so...appaling. Christians used to do the same type of bullshit, but generally don't anymore. Why?

Having had longer to work out the kinks? The middle eastern states were batted around like tennis balls by the colonial powers for over a century. That's not really good for social stability.

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23-06-2014, 10:36 AM
RE: The Worst Religion is Islam?
Islam gives people license to commit atrocities in much the same way the bible gave people the license to commit atrocities. Islam simply makes it easier. It enforces control of it's believers and thus attempts to control others outside of their faith through violence & death.

They are the borg

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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23-06-2014, 10:49 AM
RE: The Worst Religion is Islam?
Not my original thought but something I read (Thomas Sowell, Hitchens?) noted how the whole multiple wives lead to an upper class of men controlling those who would never get a wife through religious control. I'm not saying its the sole cause but certainly a plausible contributor. There are other societies with multiple wives that haven't turned so violent/controlling.

Another thought I have is the whole issue of oil. Would these middle eastern societies be the same without the large cash influx from a scarce natural resource? Dirt poor countries in Africa for example also treat their women and "outsiders" with the same degree of bloodthirsty violence. Seems too complex for someone like me who has never been heavily schooled in comparative religion, history or sociology.

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored- Aldous Huxley
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23-06-2014, 10:50 AM
RE: The Worst Religion is Islam?
(23-06-2014 09:25 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(23-06-2014 09:06 AM)Thinkerbelle Wrote:  Any religion can be abused or misdirected for personal gain. And they frequently are.

Of course, but is Islam designed to install it's sickness better than others, or are the people (do to factors outside of religion) , chiefly men, more to blame?

I think Rev hit on what I was talking about more, but it only brings up more questions for me. The Gauls, The Franks, etc were all very much 'tribal' during the early Middle Ages, around the birth of Islam. Europe moved on, these other folks did not...and they had much better mathematicians and scientists at the time. Consider

The science and mathematics...that's the thing -- at some point Islam went off the deep end into oppression and control. Not just in their treatment of women but everyone. They want to keep people in the dark, because that's the easiest way to control them.


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23-06-2014, 10:52 AM
RE: The Worst Religion is Islam?
(23-06-2014 10:10 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(23-06-2014 09:52 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  ...
Christians used to do the same type of bullshit, but generally don't anymore. Why?
The printing press, The Renaissance, The Enlightenment, the spread of ideas and knowledge ... you know this shit.
---

That's pretty much it.
Freedom flourishes where exchange of information is valued.
To restrict information is to control everything and the subsequent step to control is to devalue freedom itself.

Whomever is in control will look upon knowledge to be the enemy and will utilize religion to devalue freedom in the eyes of those controlled.

This is why the caged bird sings. It sings a song of freedom which it can not know it doesn't really have. Dodgy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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23-06-2014, 11:11 AM
RE: The Worst Religion is Islam?
(23-06-2014 10:52 AM)kim Wrote:  
(23-06-2014 10:10 AM)DLJ Wrote:  The printing press, The Renaissance, The Enlightenment, the spread of ideas and knowledge ... you know this shit.
---

That's pretty much it.
Freedom flourishes where exchange of information is valued.
To restrict information is to control everything and the subsequent step to control is to devalue freedom itself.

Whomever is in control will look upon knowledge to be the enemy and will utilize religion to devalue freedom in the eyes of those controlled.

This is why the caged bird sings. It sings a song of freedom which it can not know it doesn't really have. Dodgy

Well, of course I agree except for the caged bird - it sings because it is lonely as heck, designed to live in a flock, and trying for all it's worth to attract others of the same kind. It is not a joyous song.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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23-06-2014, 11:20 AM
RE: The Worst Religion is Islam?
I don't know much about the history of Muslim countries like you guys do. But Islam is somewhere to blame as well. Because Quran says 'this is the perfect religion' and somehow people have taken it so literally that even after 1400 years it remains the perfect religion. Even though now-a-days we are concentrating on education, the people before us, like my mom for example, didn't get proper education as one should. Why? Because my grandma told her that she should not become a doctor because medical studies are filled with sex stuff and it will make you corrupt. Such pathetic thinking of the so-called Muslims is dragging them deeper into the waters of ignorance and superstition. Combined education was considered Haram, talking to a boy for even a study-related matter was automatically considered something to be ashamed of, if a girl loses her virginity before marriage and her husband finds out he can file in court against her, premaritial sex can lead you to stoning to death, a girl wearing jeans and tshirts is considered a prostitute, every child is brainwashed with what dumbass miracles quran states but they are not taught about science. This is the country I live in, if I talk about science, I am looked upon as a weirdo, but if a bunch of girls gather up in someone house and chant verses from Quran for its magical healing, no one objects. Islam teaches us how to beat your wife if she disobeys you, can't you fucking divorce her if she's so bad? And, I asked my family about the Salman Rushdie case and those cartoons in Denmark and I told them wasn't it way out of line to kill someone on a bunch of cartoons or a novel? And they said no Allah commanded us to kill those who are responsible for blasphemy, so I said but still think for yourself is it right to kill a person for cartoon and deprive him of his freedom of speech? And they said ofcourse it's right, Allah told us to do it and whatever Allah says is right. FML
This is a Islamic country, fucked up and pathetic. But luckily, everyone is more focused today towards education so they are well-educated but not well-informed since most Pakistani's are focusing towards finance and banking, very few are into science. I've seen some of my 'science' friends talk shit sometimes too, like a girl shouldn't take a bath/shower during her periods because Hazrat Ayesha said so, I mean isnt that the time we women feel to shower the most? One can only hope that education would change the future of my country, but the chances are not very high as long as religion is here.

All great truths begin as blasphemy - George Bernard Shaw
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23-06-2014, 11:46 AM
RE: The Worst Religion is Islam?
(23-06-2014 10:50 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(23-06-2014 09:25 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  Of course, but is Islam designed to install it's sickness better than others, or are the people (do to factors outside of religion) , chiefly men, more to blame?

I think Rev hit on what I was talking about more, but it only brings up more questions for me. The Gauls, The Franks, etc were all very much 'tribal' during the early Middle Ages, around the birth of Islam. Europe moved on, these other folks did not...and they had much better mathematicians and scientists at the time. Consider

The science and mathematics...that's the thing -- at some point Islam went off the deep end into oppression and control. Not just in their treatment of women but everyone. They want to keep people in the dark, because that's the easiest way to control them.

It's a mushroom society. In the dark and buried in shit.

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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23-06-2014, 11:52 AM
RE: The Worst Religion is Islam?
Islam is just as bad as any other religion. None of the Abrahamic religions have great histories. It's just that most people not in the middle east adapted to a modern civilization. Current day Islam is almost like 14th century Christianity.

Islamic fanatics are just following the literal word. If Christians followed the literal word it would be just as bad. Islam is no different in that it willfully spreads misinformation and actively holds civilization back.

Now that you've given Hitchens a go, give Richard Dawkins and Lawrence Krauss a shot.

The religion of one age, is the literary entertainment of the next.
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23-06-2014, 12:07 PM
RE: The Worst Religion is Islam?
It wasnt the worst 400 years ago, and I would like to thinkt hat there is more than religion that contributes to the barbary that one sees in the middle east.

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