The Worst Religious Holiday - EVER!!!!!!
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02-03-2015, 04:06 PM (This post was last modified: 03-03-2015 09:02 AM by TheInquisition.)
RE: The Worst Religious Holiday - EVER!!!!!!
(02-03-2015 03:41 PM)Qlueless Wrote:  
(02-03-2015 10:58 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  Not only is it not in Egyptian records, but there's no mention in any other records, the Nile is over 4,000 miles long and extends through several countries. If it turned to blood, I think we would easily see evidence in writings from other regions and the massive interruption in trade and farming would have been an upheaval that would decimate the entire continent.

The disruption of Egyptian trade would have been noticed by the Babylonians, Canaanites, Hittites and any other empire of that time, it would have been a major event that simply could not have escaped notice.

Absolutely. There are tons and tons of volumes of literature from 15th century BCE Egypt--written on the many papyri and stele that survived the period. Smartass Gimme a break!

Absolutely Q!! And I'm sure you're about to provide evidence that would be there- or not. If the Nile turned to blood, all life in it would've died, have we found evidence of this mass die-off? Also if it had turned to blood, we would be able to see a blood layer along it's entire 4,000+ mile length very distinct from the sand layers.
I'll patiently wait for you to provide all of this evidence, oh wait, I already know where your evidence resides:

[Image: Spongebob-imagination-o.gif]

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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03-03-2015, 02:52 PM
RE: The Worst Religious Holiday - EVER!!!!!!
(02-03-2015 04:06 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(02-03-2015 03:41 PM)Qlueless Wrote:  Absolutely. There are tons and tons of volumes of literature from 15th century BCE Egypt--written on the many papyri and stele that survived the period. Smartass Gimme a break!

Absolutely Q!! And I'm sure you're about to provide evidence that would be there- or not. If the Nile turned to blood, all life in it would've died, have we found evidence of this mass die-off? Also if it had turned to blood, we would be able to see a blood layer along it's entire 4,000+ mile length very distinct from the sand layers.
I'll patiently wait for you to provide all of this evidence, oh wait, I already know where your evidence resides:

[Image: Spongebob-imagination-o.gif]

The Nile River empties into...? I'm sure you know. There would be no evidence of a mass river extinction. Or are you expecting gravestone markers for each fish and newt?

As for the rest, the blood turned back to water. So no blood layer along the Nile's length. Jesus shed water and blood for us. Those who are covered in water have living water flow through their spirit. So again an OT event has shades of Christ.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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03-03-2015, 02:57 PM (This post was last modified: 04-03-2015 09:11 AM by TheInquisition.)
RE: The Worst Religious Holiday - EVER!!!!!!
(03-03-2015 02:52 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(02-03-2015 04:06 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  Absolutely Q!! And I'm sure you're about to provide evidence that would be there- or not. If the Nile turned to blood, all life in it would've died, have we found evidence of this mass die-off? Also if it had turned to blood, we would be able to see a blood layer along it's entire 4,000+ mile length very distinct from the sand layers.
I'll patiently wait for you to provide all of this evidence, oh wait, I already know where your evidence resides:

[Image: Spongebob-imagination-o.gif]

The Nile River empties into...? I'm sure you know. There would be no evidence of a mass river extinction. Or are you expecting gravestone markers for each fish and newt?

As for the rest, the blood turned back to water. So no blood layer along the Nile's length. Jesus shed water and blood for us. Those who are covered in water have living water flow through their spirit. So again an OT event has shades of Christ.

I knew you would have nothing in regards to evidence, just more of your insipid faux piety. Drinking Beverage

Here's some info on Sargon of Akkad according to the myth of Sargon, his mother was a priestess that birthed him in secret and placed him in a basket of reeds in the river, his adoptive father found him and raised him. When he later became king, he started conquering the entire fertile crescent, even defeating a city named Uruk, known for it's famous walls. Sound familiar?
The thing about Sargon though; even though he long predated the story of Moses, there seems to be considerable extra-biblical evidence that he existed. Consider
It seems that people have a tendency to write about things like that, things that other rulers and other cultures take note of and leave traces of.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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03-03-2015, 03:41 PM (This post was last modified: 03-03-2015 03:46 PM by Reltzik.)
RE: The Worst Religious Holiday - EVER!!!!!!
(02-03-2015 03:40 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(02-03-2015 08:53 AM)Ace Wrote:  http://www.atheistrepublic.com/blog/dean...us-holiday

I find it maddening that people actually defend this shit, when is infanticide ever a just/good/moral etc thing ? EVER ?

my fav part in that page

the bible should change its name to "the book about the biggest hypocrite, racist, misogynist, idiot, asshole to ever exist in fiction"

Good questions. Looks like you and the author of the webpage forgot that God revisited on the Egyptians the infanticide they practiced on the Israelites. Moses was one of a few who survived an entire generation condemned to slaughter; God brought the infanticide on the Egyptians because sometimes we see people reaping what they sow. Other times we must wait for the next world...

You seem very righteous in your anger about the Passover killings. Are you equally zealous about the earlier Egyptian holocaust? Level playing field.

Both are works of fiction in our minds, and we will discuss them in that context.

In the context of that fiction, both are highly contemptible.

And what God is said to have done to the firstborn of Egypt is in no way just, nor justified by the earlier atrocity of the Egyptian mass infanticide.

Leaving aside, for a moment, whether "an eye for an eye" is a good groundwork for justice generally, it doesn't even rise to that standard.... from Exodus 11:5 (KJV):

Quote:And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the first born of Pharaoh that sitteth upon his throne, even unto the firstborn of the maidservant that is behind the mill; and all the firstborn of beasts.

Suppose, in this fiction, that the Egyptian genocide had occurred, that a Pharaoh had ordered the murder of Jewish children and many of his people carried out that order. I will grant, solely for the sake of argument, that those involved in the genocide would deserve punishment of this nature. But... would the maidservant have been such a person? She would not have been a soldier who carried out the order, or a noble or priest who disseminated the order and organized the effort. She wouldn't have been the Pharaoh who gave the order. Some such maidservants might have also been midwives... midwives who the Exodus story says sought to spare the Jewish babies in spite of Pharaoh's orders. Did the midwives who defied Pharaoh and let the Jewish children live deserve to have their babies die? If they were themselves firstborns, did THEY deserve to die?

What about the maidservants that weren't involved in the genocide at all, had no say in it either way. Did they deserve to be punished by having their children killed?

Supposedly there was enough time between the genocide and the Plagues for Moses to have grown into adulthood. What about maidservants who at the time of the genocide were, say, 6-year-old girls, and COULDN'T have participated? Did they deserve to be punished by having their children killed? What about maidservants who hadn't even been BORN by the time of the Egyptian genocide? Did they deserve to have their firstborns killed for that crime?

Expand this beyond maidservants; after all, it was ALL the firstborns. What about the farmer who didn't participate in the genocide? Did he deserve to lose a child? What about the baker, or brickmaker, or beggar, who had nothing to do with the genocide? Did they deserve to have their children killed?

And then, of course, the most important question. Leaving aside for the moment, say, a 50-year-old firstborn who HAD participated in the genocide, and focusing for a moment only on the firstborn children younger than 10 years of age. How many of THEM deserved the death sentence?

Punishment that falls upon the innocent as much as the guilty is wrong. Justice that targets those who gave no offense is no justice at all.

You say your god, as depicted here, killing many who had no hand in the genocide, to punish their parents, many of whom also had no hand in the genocide, can be seen as just if acting in retribution for that genocide.

I say it isn't, and that the willfully blind eye that you would turn to that character's atrocities is itself repugnant (though, of course, not as repugnant as those atrocities themselves would be).

We aren't going to agree on this. I have not the moral flexibility to endorse and defend such monstrous actions, and you have not the moral courage or integrity to repudiate them.
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04-03-2015, 03:56 AM
RE: The Worst Religious Holiday - EVER!!!!!!
(03-03-2015 02:52 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(02-03-2015 04:06 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  Absolutely Q!! And I'm sure you're about to provide evidence that would be there- or not. If the Nile turned to blood, all life in it would've died, have we found evidence of this mass die-off? Also if it had turned to blood, we would be able to see a blood layer along it's entire 4,000+ mile length very distinct from the sand layers.
I'll patiently wait for you to provide all of this evidence, oh wait, I already know where your evidence resides:

[Image: Spongebob-imagination-o.gif]

The Nile River empties into...? I'm sure you know. There would be no evidence of a mass river extinction. Or are you expecting gravestone markers for each fish and newt?

As for the rest, the blood turned back to water. So no blood layer along the Nile's length. Jesus shed water and blood for us. Those who are covered in water have living water flow through their spirit. So again an OT event has shades of Christ.

"Jesus shed water and blood for us. Those who are covered in water have living water flow through their spirit. So again an OT event has shades of Christ."

Brilliant! Just...fucking ...brilliant!

Your reasoning is impeccable...faultless!

Where do I sign up to your church? Jeebus is now my precious...my lord and master! I wanna bend over and pay my 10% now.
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04-03-2015, 06:43 AM
RE: The Worst Religious Holiday - EVER!!!!!!
(04-03-2015 03:56 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(03-03-2015 02:52 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  The Nile River empties into...? I'm sure you know. There would be no evidence of a mass river extinction. Or are you expecting gravestone markers for each fish and newt?

As for the rest, the blood turned back to water. So no blood layer along the Nile's length. Jesus shed water and blood for us. Those who are covered in water have living water flow through their spirit. So again an OT event has shades of Christ.

"Jesus shed water and blood for us. Those who are covered in water have living water flow through their spirit. So again an OT event has shades of Christ."

Brilliant! Just...fucking ...brilliant!

Your reasoning is impeccable...faultless!

Where do I sign up to your church? Jeebus is now my precious...my lord and master! I wanna bend over and pay my 10% now.

send your 10% to Warren Buffet, he can do a better job of managing your money than anyone else
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04-03-2015, 09:13 AM
RE: The Worst Religious Holiday - EVER!!!!!!
(04-03-2015 03:56 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(03-03-2015 02:52 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  The Nile River empties into...? I'm sure you know. There would be no evidence of a mass river extinction. Or are you expecting gravestone markers for each fish and newt?

As for the rest, the blood turned back to water. So no blood layer along the Nile's length. Jesus shed water and blood for us. Those who are covered in water have living water flow through their spirit. So again an OT event has shades of Christ.

"Jesus shed water and blood for us. Those who are covered in water have living water flow through their spirit. So again an OT event has shades of Christ."

Brilliant! Just...fucking ...brilliant!

Your reasoning is impeccable...faultless!

Where do I sign up to your church? Jeebus is now my precious...my lord and master! I wanna bend over and pay my 10% now.

This is always what it comes down to with Q, the bible proves that the bible is true.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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04-03-2015, 01:26 PM
RE: The Worst Religious Holiday - EVER!!!!!!
(03-03-2015 02:57 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(03-03-2015 02:52 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  The Nile River empties into...? I'm sure you know. There would be no evidence of a mass river extinction. Or are you expecting gravestone markers for each fish and newt?

As for the rest, the blood turned back to water. So no blood layer along the Nile's length. Jesus shed water and blood for us. Those who are covered in water have living water flow through their spirit. So again an OT event has shades of Christ.

I knew you would have nothing in regards to evidence, just more of your insipid faux piety. Drinking Beverage

Here's some info on Sargon of Akkad according to the myth of Sargon, his mother was a priestess that birthed him in secret and placed him in a basket of reeds in the river, his adoptive father found him and raised him. When he later became king, he started conquering the entire fertile crescent, even defeating a city named Uruk, known for it's famous walls. Sound familiar?
The thing about Sargon though; even though he long predated the story of Moses, there seems to be considerable extra-biblical evidence that he existed. Consider
It seems that people have a tendency to write about things like that, things that other rulers and other cultures take note of and leave traces of.

The Bible is a big book of stories, and some relate to some ancient panegyrics. Big deal. You at TTA are pretty into Sumerian and Akkadian legends, etc. for people who are not religious. Oh, that's right--you look at all ancient history as a slur on the Bible's truth.

I'm shocked, I tell you, shocked.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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04-03-2015, 01:28 PM
RE: The Worst Religious Holiday - EVER!!!!!!
(03-03-2015 03:41 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  
(02-03-2015 03:40 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Good questions. Looks like you and the author of the webpage forgot that God revisited on the Egyptians the infanticide they practiced on the Israelites. Moses was one of a few who survived an entire generation condemned to slaughter; God brought the infanticide on the Egyptians because sometimes we see people reaping what they sow. Other times we must wait for the next world...

You seem very righteous in your anger about the Passover killings. Are you equally zealous about the earlier Egyptian holocaust? Level playing field.

Both are works of fiction in our minds, and we will discuss them in that context.

In the context of that fiction, both are highly contemptible.

And what God is said to have done to the firstborn of Egypt is in no way just, nor justified by the earlier atrocity of the Egyptian mass infanticide.

Leaving aside, for a moment, whether "an eye for an eye" is a good groundwork for justice generally, it doesn't even rise to that standard.... from Exodus 11:5 (KJV):

Quote:And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the first born of Pharaoh that sitteth upon his throne, even unto the firstborn of the maidservant that is behind the mill; and all the firstborn of beasts.

Suppose, in this fiction, that the Egyptian genocide had occurred, that a Pharaoh had ordered the murder of Jewish children and many of his people carried out that order. I will grant, solely for the sake of argument, that those involved in the genocide would deserve punishment of this nature. But... would the maidservant have been such a person? She would not have been a soldier who carried out the order, or a noble or priest who disseminated the order and organized the effort. She wouldn't have been the Pharaoh who gave the order. Some such maidservants might have also been midwives... midwives who the Exodus story says sought to spare the Jewish babies in spite of Pharaoh's orders. Did the midwives who defied Pharaoh and let the Jewish children live deserve to have their babies die? If they were themselves firstborns, did THEY deserve to die?

What about the maidservants that weren't involved in the genocide at all, had no say in it either way. Did they deserve to be punished by having their children killed?

Supposedly there was enough time between the genocide and the Plagues for Moses to have grown into adulthood. What about maidservants who at the time of the genocide were, say, 6-year-old girls, and COULDN'T have participated? Did they deserve to be punished by having their children killed? What about maidservants who hadn't even been BORN by the time of the Egyptian genocide? Did they deserve to have their firstborns killed for that crime?

Expand this beyond maidservants; after all, it was ALL the firstborns. What about the farmer who didn't participate in the genocide? Did he deserve to lose a child? What about the baker, or brickmaker, or beggar, who had nothing to do with the genocide? Did they deserve to have their children killed?

And then, of course, the most important question. Leaving aside for the moment, say, a 50-year-old firstborn who HAD participated in the genocide, and focusing for a moment only on the firstborn children younger than 10 years of age. How many of THEM deserved the death sentence?

Punishment that falls upon the innocent as much as the guilty is wrong. Justice that targets those who gave no offense is no justice at all.

You say your god, as depicted here, killing many who had no hand in the genocide, to punish their parents, many of whom also had no hand in the genocide, can be seen as just if acting in retribution for that genocide.

I say it isn't, and that the willfully blind eye that you would turn to that character's atrocities is itself repugnant (though, of course, not as repugnant as those atrocities themselves would be).

We aren't going to agree on this. I have not the moral flexibility to endorse and defend such monstrous actions, and you have not the moral courage or integrity to repudiate them.

God judges nations, not just individuals. The Bible is explicit in this matter. Also, God has a fine sense of irony. Look at post WWII Nazi Germany if you think God takes the destruction of Jewish infants lightly. They are the Chosen People, you know?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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04-03-2015, 01:30 PM
RE: The Worst Religious Holiday - EVER!!!!!!
(04-03-2015 03:56 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(03-03-2015 02:52 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  The Nile River empties into...? I'm sure you know. There would be no evidence of a mass river extinction. Or are you expecting gravestone markers for each fish and newt?

As for the rest, the blood turned back to water. So no blood layer along the Nile's length. Jesus shed water and blood for us. Those who are covered in water have living water flow through their spirit. So again an OT event has shades of Christ.

"Jesus shed water and blood for us. Those who are covered in water have living water flow through their spirit. So again an OT event has shades of Christ."

Brilliant! Just...fucking ...brilliant!

Your reasoning is impeccable...faultless!

Where do I sign up to your church? Jeebus is now my precious...my lord and master! I wanna bend over and pay my 10% now.

Hi Mark,

You are unaware of the Christian concept of types and shadows in the Bible, and that most of the OT is pictures of the Christ? Really?

My statements had less to do with reason and logic than the fun word-hunt for shades of Christ. You should be, in your position, a little bit more tolerant of alternative views and lifestyles IMO. Would you say something like that to an Eastern mystic? I'm a Christian mystic, so even though your words were offensive to me and to God, I'll pray for you. Consider

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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