The Worst Religious Holiday - EVER!!!!!!
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04-03-2015, 01:31 PM
RE: The Worst Religious Holiday - EVER!!!!!!
(04-03-2015 09:13 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(04-03-2015 03:56 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  "Jesus shed water and blood for us. Those who are covered in water have living water flow through their spirit. So again an OT event has shades of Christ."

Brilliant! Just...fucking ...brilliant!

Your reasoning is impeccable...faultless!

Where do I sign up to your church? Jeebus is now my precious...my lord and master! I wanna bend over and pay my 10% now.

This is always what it comes down to with Q, the bible proves that the bible is true.

Are you being serious? It always come down to me that I'm here to teach you the Bible because you're always misquoting it and taking it out of context, something that is wholly different than the circular fallacy you are accusing me of following here.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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04-03-2015, 01:37 PM
RE: The Worst Religious Holiday - EVER!!!!!!
(04-03-2015 01:26 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  The Bible is a big book of stories, and some relate to some ancient panegyrics. Big deal.

That is the truest thing you have ever said.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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04-03-2015, 01:42 PM
RE: The Worst Religious Holiday - EVER!!!!!!
(04-03-2015 01:31 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(04-03-2015 09:13 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  This is always what it comes down to with Q, the bible proves that the bible is true.

Are you being serious? It always come down to me that I'm here to teach you the Bible because you're always misquoting it and taking it out of context, something that is wholly different than the circular fallacy you are accusing me of following here.

The magnanimous Q barges into an atheist forum to tell us how to interpret his book of fables, here's a few verses for you Q:

James 4:4-5
You adulterous people! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. Or do you suppose it is to no purpose that the Scripture says, “He yearns jealously over the spirit that he has made to dwell in us”?

1 Timothy 1:3-4
As I urged you when I was going to Macedonia, remain at Ephesus so that you may charge certain persons not to teach any different doctrine, nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculations rather than the stewardship from God that is by faith.

2 Corinthians 6:14
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?

2 John 1;10-11
If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.

1 Corinthians 15:33
Do not be deceived: “Bad company ruins good morals.”

Philippians 3:17
Brothers, join in imitating me, and keep your eyes on those who walk according to the example you have in us.

Every time you get on TTA to blather about your fairytale, you make Jesus cry.

[Image: Jesus-facepalm.jpg]

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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04-03-2015, 03:01 PM
RE: The Worst Religious Holiday - EVER!!!!!!
(04-03-2015 01:42 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(04-03-2015 01:31 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Are you being serious? It always come down to me that I'm here to teach you the Bible because you're always misquoting it and taking it out of context, something that is wholly different than the circular fallacy you are accusing me of following here.

The magnanimous Q barges into an atheist forum to tell us how to interpret his book of fables, here's a few verses for you Q:

James 4:4-5
You adulterous people! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. Or do you suppose it is to no purpose that the Scripture says, “He yearns jealously over the spirit that he has made to dwell in us”?

1 Timothy 1:3-4
As I urged you when I was going to Macedonia, remain at Ephesus so that you may charge certain persons not to teach any different doctrine, nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculations rather than the stewardship from God that is by faith.

2 Corinthians 6:14
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?

2 John 1;10-11
If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.

1 Corinthians 15:33
Do not be deceived: “Bad company ruins good morals.”

Philippians 3:17
Brothers, join in imitating me, and keep your eyes on those who walk according to the example you have in us.

Every time you get on TTA to blather about your fairytale, you make Jesus cry.

[Image: Jesus-facepalm.jpg]

I don't follow how these verses apply to you or I. What are you trying to say? That the Bible says not to associate with you? You're lost. The Bible says not to associate with false Christian teachers by supporting them, giving them credence, giving them money. You teach off things, but you're not doing it in Christ's name.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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04-03-2015, 04:33 PM
RE: The Worst Religious Holiday - EVER!!!!!!
(04-03-2015 03:01 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(04-03-2015 01:42 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  The magnanimous Q barges into an atheist forum to tell us how to interpret his book of fables, here's a few verses for you Q:

James 4:4-5
You adulterous people! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. Or do you suppose it is to no purpose that the Scripture says, “He yearns jealously over the spirit that he has made to dwell in us”?

1 Timothy 1:3-4
As I urged you when I was going to Macedonia, remain at Ephesus so that you may charge certain persons not to teach any different doctrine, nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculations rather than the stewardship from God that is by faith.

2 Corinthians 6:14
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?

2 John 1;10-11
If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.

1 Corinthians 15:33
Do not be deceived: “Bad company ruins good morals.”

Philippians 3:17
Brothers, join in imitating me, and keep your eyes on those who walk according to the example you have in us.

Every time you get on TTA to blather about your fairytale, you make Jesus cry.

[Image: Jesus-facepalm.jpg]

I don't follow how these verses apply to you or I. What are you trying to say? That the Bible says not to associate with you? You're lost. The Bible says not to associate with false Christian teachers by supporting them, giving them credence, giving them money. You teach off things, but you're not doing it in Christ's name.

Seriously dude, do you really have nothing better to do than make Jesus cry?

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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04-03-2015, 04:48 PM
RE: The Worst Religious Holiday - EVER!!!!!!
(04-03-2015 01:28 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(03-03-2015 03:41 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  Both are works of fiction in our minds, and we will discuss them in that context.

In the context of that fiction, both are highly contemptible.

And what God is said to have done to the firstborn of Egypt is in no way just, nor justified by the earlier atrocity of the Egyptian mass infanticide.

Leaving aside, for a moment, whether "an eye for an eye" is a good groundwork for justice generally, it doesn't even rise to that standard.... from Exodus 11:5 (KJV):


Suppose, in this fiction, that the Egyptian genocide had occurred, that a Pharaoh had ordered the murder of Jewish children and many of his people carried out that order. I will grant, solely for the sake of argument, that those involved in the genocide would deserve punishment of this nature. But... would the maidservant have been such a person? She would not have been a soldier who carried out the order, or a noble or priest who disseminated the order and organized the effort. She wouldn't have been the Pharaoh who gave the order. Some such maidservants might have also been midwives... midwives who the Exodus story says sought to spare the Jewish babies in spite of Pharaoh's orders. Did the midwives who defied Pharaoh and let the Jewish children live deserve to have their babies die? If they were themselves firstborns, did THEY deserve to die?

What about the maidservants that weren't involved in the genocide at all, had no say in it either way. Did they deserve to be punished by having their children killed?

Supposedly there was enough time between the genocide and the Plagues for Moses to have grown into adulthood. What about maidservants who at the time of the genocide were, say, 6-year-old girls, and COULDN'T have participated? Did they deserve to be punished by having their children killed? What about maidservants who hadn't even been BORN by the time of the Egyptian genocide? Did they deserve to have their firstborns killed for that crime?

Expand this beyond maidservants; after all, it was ALL the firstborns. What about the farmer who didn't participate in the genocide? Did he deserve to lose a child? What about the baker, or brickmaker, or beggar, who had nothing to do with the genocide? Did they deserve to have their children killed?

And then, of course, the most important question. Leaving aside for the moment, say, a 50-year-old firstborn who HAD participated in the genocide, and focusing for a moment only on the firstborn children younger than 10 years of age. How many of THEM deserved the death sentence?

Punishment that falls upon the innocent as much as the guilty is wrong. Justice that targets those who gave no offense is no justice at all.

You say your god, as depicted here, killing many who had no hand in the genocide, to punish their parents, many of whom also had no hand in the genocide, can be seen as just if acting in retribution for that genocide.

I say it isn't, and that the willfully blind eye that you would turn to that character's atrocities is itself repugnant (though, of course, not as repugnant as those atrocities themselves would be).

We aren't going to agree on this. I have not the moral flexibility to endorse and defend such monstrous actions, and you have not the moral courage or integrity to repudiate them.

God judges nations, not just individuals. The Bible is explicit in this matter. Also, God has a fine sense of irony. Look at post WWII Nazi Germany if you think God takes the destruction of Jewish infants lightly. They are the Chosen People, you know?

That isn't the question I am getting at. You say God judges nations, not individuals? That dodging away from your original point.

We're still talking about an appalling lack of discernment. We're still talking about a being who supposedly is tormenting and killing the innocent as well as the guilty for such-and-such crime, solely because those innocents happened to live in the same nation.

You say God does this. I will agree that God, as depicted in the Bible, does this.

And consider that question vis-a-vis the following alternative available to a supposedly omnipotent and omniscient god: Punishing ONLY the guilty (including Pharaoh... assuming he had the free will to be guilty with that hardening of heart thing) and not touching the innocent, and doing so without a single erroneous conviction. Or if the nation as an entity were guilty, causing some political strife that undid the governance and unity of the nation and forced it to disolve into separate polities, but leaving the innocents in the land untouched?

These (along with other options) is what you would have me believe that God passed up to judge the entire nation, and to do so by striking down innocent and guilty alike, those who had offered offense to the Jews and those who hadn't... and ALSO leaving untouched some who HAD harmed the Jews. (After all, might there not be a man who had engaged in the genocide, who was not himself firstborn and was childless, or whose firstborn child was already dead? What punishment would he have received?)

Fine. I'll agree that is what transpires within the narrative.

But the real topic of this thread, and the one you were brave enough to acknowledge only when you thought you had a decent argument in "but wait the Egyptians were committing genocide" and then promptly ran away from when that dissolved, is whether this is just and righteous, something that a good being could do, or not. Can the act depicted here... even if you name it judging a nation rather than individuals... be anything other than the act of a monster?
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04-03-2015, 06:55 PM
RE: The Worst Religious Holiday - EVER!!!!!!
(04-03-2015 03:01 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  ... The Bible says not to associate with false Christian teachers ...

Such a helpful book, that bible. Don't follow false teachings, it says. Only it leaves out a wee mite of followup detail: HOW DO YOU TELL?

"Oh," soothe the devout of every denomination, taking a moment from their furious denunciations of every denomination but themselves, "You'll know in your heart, god will let you know. Now hand me that brick, quick, and take cover".

Laugh out load
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04-03-2015, 09:50 PM (This post was last modified: 04-03-2015 09:56 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: The Worst Religious Holiday - EVER!!!!!!
(04-03-2015 01:30 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(04-03-2015 03:56 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  "Jesus shed water and blood for us. Those who are covered in water have living water flow through their spirit. So again an OT event has shades of Christ."

Brilliant! Just...fucking ...brilliant!

Your reasoning is impeccable...faultless!

Where do I sign up to your church? Jeebus is now my precious...my lord and master! I wanna bend over and pay my 10% now.

Hi Mark,

You are unaware of the Christian concept of types and shadows in the Bible, and that most of the OT is pictures of the Christ? Really?

My statements had less to do with reason and logic than the fun word-hunt for shades of Christ. You should be, in your position, a little bit more tolerant of alternative views and lifestyles IMO. Would you say something like that to an Eastern mystic? I'm a Christian mystic, so even though your words were offensive to me and to God, I'll pray for you. Consider

Hi Q, you write
"Hi Mark, you are unaware of the Christian concept of types and shadows in the Bible,"

Actually I am very aware of it. One of the words for it is "hermeneutics," which is the art of making the bible say what you want it to say. It is bullshit. It is the excuse most commonly used by evangelical types to try and explain away the grossly immoral and pathetically ridiculous writings in the Bible.

"My statements had less to do with reason and logic..."

So very very true. Take that thought, and ponder on it, and try not to let other thoughts pollute it.

You imply I am intolerant of other views. This is what you wrote...
"Jesus shed water and blood for us. Those who are covered in water have living water flow through their spirit. So again an OT event has shades of Christ."

I'm sorry, but this sort of nonsense deserves to be called out for what it is. Read what you wrote carefully and slowly, and it should dawn on you why I have derided you.

You claim to be offended. Get over it, and pull your socks up. You claim I've upset your god, but your god could not possibly be offended. Firstly... he doesn't exist. Secondly, even if he did, he's got better things to do than throw a hissy fit over a few words. He or she is bigger than that. Your god is only a reflection of you... you have created him in your own likeness.

I don't care whether you pray for me or not. The fact you say you will only reflects back on you, because you have failed to influence, impress or control me. You therefore resort to imagining that praying will somehow influence me. By all means try to impress me with your arguments, but you're not going to change one iota of what I do by praying to your imaginary friend.
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05-03-2015, 06:32 AM
RE: The Worst Religious Holiday - EVER!!!!!!
(04-03-2015 09:50 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(04-03-2015 01:30 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Hi Mark,

You are unaware of the Christian concept of types and shadows in the Bible, and that most of the OT is pictures of the Christ? Really?

My statements had less to do with reason and logic than the fun word-hunt for shades of Christ. You should be, in your position, a little bit more tolerant of alternative views and lifestyles IMO. Would you say something like that to an Eastern mystic? I'm a Christian mystic, so even though your words were offensive to me and to God, I'll pray for you. Consider

Hi Q, you write
"Hi Mark, you are unaware of the Christian concept of types and shadows in the Bible,"

Actually I am very aware of it. One of the words for it is "hermeneutics," which is the art of making the bible say what you want it to say. It is bullshit. It is the excuse most commonly used by evangelical types to try and explain away the grossly immoral and pathetically ridiculous writings in the Bible.

"My statements had less to do with reason and logic..."

So very very true. Take that thought, and ponder on it, and try not to let other thoughts pollute it.

You imply I am intolerant of other views. This is what you wrote...
"Jesus shed water and blood for us. Those who are covered in water have living water flow through their spirit. So again an OT event has shades of Christ."

I'm sorry, but this sort of nonsense deserves to be called out for what it is. Read what you wrote carefully and slowly, and it should dawn on you why I have derided you.

You claim to be offended. Get over it, and pull your socks up. You claim I've upset your god, but your god could not possibly be offended. Firstly... he doesn't exist. Secondly, even if he did, he's got better things to do than throw a hissy fit over a few words. He or she is bigger than that. Your god is only a reflection of you... you have created him in your own likeness.

I don't care whether you pray for me or not. The fact you say you will only reflects back on you, because you have failed to influence, impress or control me. You therefore resort to imagining that praying will somehow influence me. By all means try to impress me with your arguments, but you're not going to change one iota of what I do by praying to your imaginary friend.

Your post caused me to realize that Q actually has a name for the method of intellectual slavery that he's subjugated to -hermeneutics. Hermeneutics has told him WHAT to think while abandoning HOW to think, so he'll go around these forums peddling his hermeneutic snake-oil, feeling self-righteous and smug every time he spews his nonsense.

Step right up, Q has the solution to what ails atheists, it's hermeneutic snake oil!

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Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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05-03-2015, 09:04 AM
RE: The Worst Religious Holiday - EVER!!!!!!
(04-03-2015 09:50 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(04-03-2015 01:30 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Hi Mark,

You are unaware of the Christian concept of types and shadows in the Bible, and that most of the OT is pictures of the Christ? Really?

My statements had less to do with reason and logic than the fun word-hunt for shades of Christ. You should be, in your position, a little bit more tolerant of alternative views and lifestyles IMO. Would you say something like that to an Eastern mystic? I'm a Christian mystic, so even though your words were offensive to me and to God, I'll pray for you. Consider

Hi Q, you write
"Hi Mark, you are unaware of the Christian concept of types and shadows in the Bible,"

Actually I am very aware of it. One of the words for it is "hermeneutics," which is the art of making the bible say what you want it to say. It is bullshit. It is the excuse most commonly used by evangelical types to try and explain away the grossly immoral and pathetically ridiculous writings in the Bible.

"My statements had less to do with reason and logic..."

So very very true. Take that thought, and ponder on it, and try not to let other thoughts pollute it.

You imply I am intolerant of other views. This is what you wrote...
"Jesus shed water and blood for us. Those who are covered in water have living water flow through their spirit. So again an OT event has shades of Christ."

I'm sorry, but this sort of nonsense deserves to be called out for what it is. Read what you wrote carefully and slowly, and it should dawn on you why I have derided you.

You claim to be offended. Get over it, and pull your socks up. You claim I've upset your god, but your god could not possibly be offended. Firstly... he doesn't exist. Secondly, even if he did, he's got better things to do than throw a hissy fit over a few words. He or she is bigger than that. Your god is only a reflection of you... you have created him in your own likeness.

I don't care whether you pray for me or not. The fact you say you will only reflects back on you, because you have failed to influence, impress or control me. You therefore resort to imagining that praying will somehow influence me. By all means try to impress me with your arguments, but you're not going to change one iota of what I do by praying to your imaginary friend.

I see, Mark. You are aware of hermeneutics and type and shadow, and merely felt like expressing some rude comments. Thanks for explaining. You are certainly entitled to be rude. It's a free country where I'm typing.

However, hermeneutics, which is a serious look at studying the Bible, and reconciling difficult passages, is something you shouldn't disdain outright. That seems to be an anti-intellectual stance to me.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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