The Worst Religious Holiday - EVER!!!!!!
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12-03-2015, 01:25 PM
RE: The Worst Religious Holiday - EVER!!!!!!
(12-03-2015 10:43 AM)natachan Wrote:  Well perhaps all the fish didn't die off. Perhaps some did but others might not have. And omnivorous and carnivorous animals might not have a problem with blood in the water, what about herbivorous animals? What was the proportion of blood to water? If it was low enough perhaps the herbivores wouldn't have a problem.

Of course the simpler answer is that it never happened. Just like five percent of the global population didn't suddenly up and leave a country where the largest population center had a population of eighty thousand.

You are correct. No evidence of the event happening except for the document with dozens of chapters of details.

Which wonder of the ancient world has survived? Pyramids. But we all know there is no evidence that the Egyptians ever used slave labor, yes?

And we all knew until the Code of Hammurabi a few years ago that there was no way anyone would tabulate big stacks of law codes in 1500 BCE or earlier...

...Finally, we all know, as you write, there was no Jewish Exodus, just as the 600,000 homes with blood on their lintels and doorposts and basins of blood on the ground--that is--blood where it was on Christ's cross, with the biggest amount of blood on the ground--also never happened. The Egyptians never woke up to see the Israelite homes abandoned and 600,000 blood markings in the places where the cross was stained with blood. Yes.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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12-03-2015, 03:08 PM
RE: The Worst Religious Holiday - EVER!!!!!!
(12-03-2015 10:35 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(11-03-2015 04:26 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  OMG this is hilarious, Kudos to you Q, you just found another plot hole in the Exodus story! You're absolutely right, the bible says nothing about Egyptians dying from drinking the blood from the Nile, or even getting sick, another significant detail that they left out that could lend believability to this myth. DERP!!

The other funny part was where you invoked god-magick to caulk over the plot hole. Laugh out loadLaugh out loadLaugh out loadLaugh out load

I also like how you're arguing against finding any physical evidence for this myth.

You are at your fucking best when you're unintentionally funny!

Actually, for the last few days I've thought it beneath you and beneath me to point out (again) what is obvious and also in the Bible--that the water was blood temporarily and returned to water.

You show your ignorance and/or disregard of basic science once again. Fish would have died within minutes of the Nile turning to water.

Fish require water going in at a certain rate to get oxygen from the water
the increased viscosity of blood would short-circuit this process making it impossible for them to breathe. Even if they could breathe blood, they would have asphyxiated within minutes of being immersed in this blood.

Another point, blood has greater buoyancy potential than water, the fish probably would have floated to the surface and immediately asphyxiated.
If they manage to stay under the blood- they asphyxiate, if they float to the surface- they asphyxiate.

Another point, the density of blood is ~8.5 lbs./gallon, the density of water is ~8.3 lbs./gallon. This is a difference 1/2 pound per gallon, where did all of this mass go? Where did it come from? Matter can neither be created or destroyed, shall we estimate the millions of tons of mass that simply vanished when this conversion process took place? Shall we ignore the resulting release of mass to energy that would result? Can you show me in the bible where it accounts for this missing mass? I know-god magic!Laugh out loadLaugh out load

Also, you completely ignore the lack of blood deposition found anywhere in the Nile delta. I know- god magic!

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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12-03-2015, 03:14 PM
RE: The Worst Religious Holiday - EVER!!!!!!
(12-03-2015 01:25 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(12-03-2015 10:43 AM)natachan Wrote:  Well perhaps all the fish didn't die off. Perhaps some did but others might not have. And omnivorous and carnivorous animals might not have a problem with blood in the water, what about herbivorous animals? What was the proportion of blood to water? If it was low enough perhaps the herbivores wouldn't have a problem.

Of course the simpler answer is that it never happened. Just like five percent of the global population didn't suddenly up and leave a country where the largest population center had a population of eighty thousand.

You are correct. No evidence of the event happening except for the document with dozens of chapters of details.

Which wonder of the ancient world has survived? Pyramids. But we all know there is no evidence that the Egyptians ever used slave labor, yes?

And we all knew until the Code of Hammurabi a few years ago that there was no way anyone would tabulate big stacks of law codes in 1500 BCE or earlier...

...Finally, we all know, as you write, there was no Jewish Exodus, just as the 600,000 homes with blood on their lintels and doorposts and basins of blood on the ground--that is--blood where it was on Christ's cross, with the biggest amount of blood on the ground--also never happened. The Egyptians never woke up to see the Israelite homes abandoned and 600,000 blood markings in the places where the cross was stained with blood. Yes.

Correct - it never happened. It's a mythical history.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-03-2015, 03:14 PM
RE: The Worst Religious Holiday - EVER!!!!!!
(12-03-2015 10:34 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(11-03-2015 01:15 PM)unfogged Wrote:  Yes, when you read something other than what the text plainly says you can make it mean whatever you want. How convenient.


Wow. You are a prime example of how religion warps perspective and clouds the mind. Killing infants for the "sins" of their parents is not something that any rational person would consider trying to justify. And why the special pleading about it not being murder for god because the victim lives forever but it is murder if a human does it? The fate of the "soul" is presumably the same either way but in both cases the victim is being deprived of the same thing. Face it, your god is a murderous, evil thug.

It is not convenient to see a crummy English translation and have to go to the Hebrew. If you want to know the Bible better, the Hebrew is like "tightening a rope to squeeze out something that is already there," rather than "inserting a thought or predestining a new thought". Does that help?

Also, I'm not making a special pleading that God doesn't murder when he causes a baby to live forever after death. I'm making an appeal that either you trust that all persons have an eternal destiny or go all the way via apatheism to the only logical conclusion. That everyone who dies at any age is murdered, as well as any animal and any plant.

"I'm making an appeal that either you trust that all persons have an eternal destiny or go all the way via apatheism to the only logical conclusion."

Q, I would have thought that after all your years at University, you could express yourself better than this. What conclusion? Is the "conclusion"
"That everyone who dies at any age is murdered, as well as any animal or plant" ?
HUH?

"apatheism" is not a word, by the way.
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12-03-2015, 03:54 PM
RE: The Worst Religious Holiday - EVER!!!!!!
This gets funnier and funnier. The largest city in the world was 80,000 people at the time. This means that, assuming 600,000 households left, that eight of the largest cities in Egypt emptied overnight assuming each was the size of Thebes. In a country where the TOTAL population of the country was two million. And no records survived? No records of emptied cities? Hell, the entire country emptied? That would have been noticeable.
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12-03-2015, 10:09 PM
RE: The Worst Religious Holiday - EVER!!!!!!
(12-03-2015 03:54 PM)natachan Wrote:  This gets funnier and funnier. The largest city in the world was 80,000 people at the time. This means that, assuming 600,000 households left, that eight of the largest cities in Egypt emptied overnight assuming each was the size of Thebes. In a country where the TOTAL population of the country was two million. And no records survived? No records of emptied cities? Hell, the entire country emptied? That would have been noticeable.

and the neighboring nations would've carved up the now empty land amongst themselves and start waring with each other as usual
and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't hesitate to conquer a land a vast as Egypt without hesitation considering the amount of importing they could afford for their damn pyramids

a nation dissappearing without a trace overnight would've been recorded by everyone yet no one even heard of such a thing at the time
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13-03-2015, 05:31 AM
RE: The Worst Religious Holiday - EVER!!!!!!
(12-03-2015 03:54 PM)natachan Wrote:  This gets funnier and funnier. The largest city in the world was 80,000 people at the time. This means that, assuming 600,000 households left, that eight of the largest cities in Egypt emptied overnight assuming each was the size of Thebes. In a country where the TOTAL population of the country was two million. And no records survived? No records of emptied cities? Hell, the entire country emptied? That would have been noticeable.

Yep, they lose their entire slave population, they lose their entire livestock population, they lose all of the firstborn of Egypt and then the Pharaoh loses his army in pursuit of Moses and gang.
No one in Egypt cared to mention a thing about this? If we are to believe the Christian apologists excuse for this embarrassing non-mention of this, the Pharaoh supposedly banned any mention of his defeat. Yet wouldn't there be some mention of the trade disruption this would have caused? The fear of neighboring countries taking notice of Egypt's weakness? Nope, apparently the Pharaoh put on a giant officer Barbrady act, nothing to see here, move along.

[Image: barbrady.png]

You would think that there might have been some tombs that show a lot of kids with the same date of death that archeologists would've found. God was in a real demonstrating mood at that moment, you think god would've made sure there was some kind of tell-tale evidence that would leave us scratching our heads and pointing to this incredible series of events, but no, god does what he's best at, completely disappearing without leaving a trace of evidence, but apparently impressing the hell out of an entire nation in the distant past with zero evidence to back up any of these myths.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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13-03-2015, 06:55 AM (This post was last modified: 13-03-2015 07:05 AM by Ace.)
RE: The Worst Religious Holiday - EVER!!!!!!
(13-03-2015 05:31 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(12-03-2015 03:54 PM)natachan Wrote:  This gets funnier and funnier. The largest city in the world was 80,000 people at the time. This means that, assuming 600,000 households left, that eight of the largest cities in Egypt emptied overnight assuming each was the size of Thebes. In a country where the TOTAL population of the country was two million. And no records survived? No records of emptied cities? Hell, the entire country emptied? That would have been noticeable.

Yep, they lose their entire slave population, they lose their entire livestock population, they lose all of the firstborn of Egypt and then the Pharaoh loses his army in pursuit of Moses and gang.
No one in Egypt cared to mention a thing about this? If we are to believe the Christian apologists excuse for this embarrassing non-mention of this, the Pharaoh supposedly banned any mention of his defeat. Yet wouldn't there be some mention of the trade disruption this would have caused? The fear of neighboring countries taking notice of Egypt's weakness? Nope, apparently the Pharaoh put on a giant officer Barbrady act, nothing to see here, move along.

[Image: barbrady.png]

You would think that there might have been some tombs that show a lot of kids with the same date of death that archeologists would've found. God was in a real demonstrating mood at that moment, you think god would've made sure there was some kind of tell-tale evidence that would leave us scratching our heads and pointing to this incredible series of events, but no, god does what he's best at, completely disappearing without leaving a trace of evidence, but apparently impressing the hell out of an entire nation in the distant past with zero evidence to back up any of these myths.

god must want us to have faith in his inconsistent, incoherent, inept incompetent story book so he censored everything which would explain why some theists are pro censorship these days
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13-03-2015, 09:45 AM
RE: The Worst Religious Holiday - EVER!!!!!!
(13-03-2015 05:31 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(12-03-2015 03:54 PM)natachan Wrote:  This gets funnier and funnier. The largest city in the world was 80,000 people at the time. This means that, assuming 600,000 households left, that eight of the largest cities in Egypt emptied overnight assuming each was the size of Thebes. In a country where the TOTAL population of the country was two million. And no records survived? No records of emptied cities? Hell, the entire country emptied? That would have been noticeable.

Yep, they lose their entire slave population, they lose their entire livestock population, they lose all of the firstborn of Egypt and then the Pharaoh loses his army in pursuit of Moses and gang.
No one in Egypt cared to mention a thing about this? If we are to believe the Christian apologists excuse for this embarrassing non-mention of this, the Pharaoh supposedly banned any mention of his defeat. Yet wouldn't there be some mention of the trade disruption this would have caused? The fear of neighboring countries taking notice of Egypt's weakness? Nope, apparently the Pharaoh put on a giant officer Barbrady act, nothing to see here, move along.

[Image: barbrady.png]

You would think that there might have been some tombs that show a lot of kids with the same date of death that archeologists would've found. God was in a real demonstrating mood at that moment, you think god would've made sure there was some kind of tell-tale evidence that would leave us scratching our heads and pointing to this incredible series of events, but no, god does what he's best at, completely disappearing without leaving a trace of evidence, but apparently impressing the hell out of an entire nation in the distant past with zero evidence to back up any of these myths.

Your point is moot because it WAS mentioned by Egyptians. Moses was an Egyptian who documented all. And many Egyptians fled with him in the Exodus then joined the Israelites. They are known in Judaism as the Habiru.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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13-03-2015, 09:47 AM
RE: The Worst Religious Holiday - EVER!!!!!!
(12-03-2015 03:14 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(12-03-2015 10:34 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  It is not convenient to see a crummy English translation and have to go to the Hebrew. If you want to know the Bible better, the Hebrew is like "tightening a rope to squeeze out something that is already there," rather than "inserting a thought or predestining a new thought". Does that help?

Also, I'm not making a special pleading that God doesn't murder when he causes a baby to live forever after death. I'm making an appeal that either you trust that all persons have an eternal destiny or go all the way via apatheism to the only logical conclusion. That everyone who dies at any age is murdered, as well as any animal and any plant.

"I'm making an appeal that either you trust that all persons have an eternal destiny or go all the way via apatheism to the only logical conclusion."

Q, I would have thought that after all your years at University, you could express yourself better than this. What conclusion? Is the "conclusion"
"That everyone who dies at any age is murdered, as well as any animal or plant" ?
HUH?

"apatheism" is not a word, by the way.

Repeating: And it helps if you read the whole thread rather than assume my latest point is disconnected--if you say the Exodus includes infanticide you are 1) saying whenever God ends any person's or plant's or animal's life it is unjust/murder or else you are saying 2) babies are "innocent" whatever that means--oh yes--that means that you are not and are a moral agent, accountable for your sin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apatheism

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