The actual truth about how the universe came into play
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23-11-2015, 11:33 AM
RE: The actual truth about how the universe came into play
At work.

(23-11-2015 11:25 AM)cainchild Wrote:  Hubris is anathema to good science, as are presupposed biases. There is a line between atheism and anti-theism. Am I right in noting that this site is anti-theist?

Hello! Big Grin

I think you'll find we like our humor sunny-side up, usually with a couple of dollops of sarcasm on the side, thence with a marinade of saucy irony. Tongue

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23-11-2015, 11:42 AM
RE: The actual truth about how the universe came into play
Instead of bashing the op in an effort to try and feel superior, and assuming that the poster is theistic, and thus incapable of thought and undeserving of being treated like a human, I will go ahead and bite. Blah Blah , something something scientists look under all the stones, even the ones we think are ridiculous.

Why do you assume that extreme complexity cannot emerge from even small amounts of chaos or entropy?
I would argue that putting 30 rubber balls in a paint mixer is going to result in a far more complex flight pattern for those balls than would filling it up completely in a highly organized fashion. In both cases complexity is going to increase if those balls break apart, and if they have the opportunity to move about randomly they have higher complexity from the start. Thus, my argument is that complexity actually requires a certain amount of disorganization, and increases(diminishes in certain cases) with alterations in scale. I mean, science can assert with at least some certainty that the universe was likely at it's most complex when it was far far younger. More balls bouncing around in a smaller universe.

The postulation that the universe came from nothing, is essentially a bad misinterpretation of questionable scientific theory and the unsubtle and pop-culture version of the free lunch. The reality in science is so much more...sciencey and complex. Occam's razor may be a useful tool, but in itself does not define scientific discoveries. The free lunch, from zero energy is one of many very much valid interpretations of that data. You'd do better in this case to argue in favor of M theory I think. After all, countless big bangs and countless collisions between differing dimensions or membranes is A LOT more complex than just this on immigrating from a sudden loss of homeostasis in a primordial nothingness.

And compliments to goodwithoutgod for the only other answer that wasn't snide to the point of being a discredit to the capacity for civility with atheists.
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23-11-2015, 11:46 AM
RE: The actual truth about how the universe came into play
Its all philosophy Drinking Beverage

I feel so much, and yet I feel nothing.
I am a rock, I am the sky, the birds and the trees and everything beyond.
I am the wind, in the fields in which I roar. I am the water, in which I drown.
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23-11-2015, 11:48 AM
RE: The actual truth about how the universe came into play
(23-11-2015 11:42 AM)cainchild Wrote:  Instead of bashing the op in an effort to try and feel superior, and assuming that the poster is theistic, and thus incapable of thought and undeserving of being treated like a human, I will go ahead and bite. Blah Blah , something something scientists look under all the stones, even the ones we think are ridiculous.

Why do you assume that extreme complexity cannot emerge from even small amounts of chaos or entropy?
I would argue that putting 30 rubber balls in a paint mixer is going to result in a far more complex flight pattern for those balls than would filling it up completely in a highly organized fashion. In both cases complexity is going to increase if those balls break apart, and if they have the opportunity to move about randomly they have higher complexity from the start. Thus, my argument is that complexity actually requires a certain amount of disorganization, and increases(diminishes in certain cases) with alterations in scale. I mean, science can assert with at least some certainty that the universe was likely at it's most complex when it was far far younger. More balls bouncing around in a smaller universe.

The postulation that the universe came from nothing, is essentially a bad misinterpretation of questionable scientific theory and the unsubtle and pop-culture version of the free lunch. The reality in science is so much more...sciencey and complex. Occam's razor may be a useful tool, but in itself does not define scientific discoveries. The free lunch, from zero energy is one of many very much valid interpretations of that data. You'd do better in this case to argue in favor of M theory I think. After all, countless big bangs and countless collisions between differing dimensions or membranes is A LOT more complex than just this on immigrating from a sudden loss of homeostasis in a primordial nothingness.

And compliments to goodwithoutgod for the only other answer that wasn't snide to the point of being a discredit to the capacity for civility with atheists.

Atheists don't have to prove they are "civil". Being faced with the repeated stupidity posted by believers here week after week, it's entirely reasonable.
And your judgemental-superior post after a few minutes here is just as obnoxious.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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23-11-2015, 11:56 AM
RE: The actual truth about how the universe came into play
(23-11-2015 11:42 AM)cainchild Wrote:  Instead of bashing the op in an effort to try and feel superior, and assuming that the poster is theistic, and thus incapable of thought and undeserving of being treated like a human, I will go ahead and bite. Blah Blah , something something scientists look under all the stones, even the ones we think are ridiculous.

Why do you assume that extreme complexity cannot emerge from even small amounts of chaos or entropy?
I would argue that putting 30 rubber balls in a paint mixer is going to result in a far more complex flight pattern for those balls than would filling it up completely in a highly organized fashion. In both cases complexity is going to increase if those balls break apart, and if they have the opportunity to move about randomly they have higher complexity from the start. Thus, my argument is that complexity actually requires a certain amount of disorganization, and increases(diminishes in certain cases) with alterations in scale. I mean, science can assert with at least some certainty that the universe was likely at it's most complex when it was far far younger. More balls bouncing around in a smaller universe.

The postulation that the universe came from nothing, is essentially a bad misinterpretation of questionable scientific theory and the unsubtle and pop-culture version of the free lunch. The reality in science is so much more...sciencey and complex. Occam's razor may be a useful tool, but in itself does not define scientific discoveries. The free lunch, from zero energy is one of many very much valid interpretations of that data. You'd do better in this case to argue in favor of M theory I think. After all, countless big bangs and countless collisions between differing dimensions or membranes is A LOT more complex than just this on immigrating from a sudden loss of homeostasis in a primordial nothingness.

And compliments to goodwithoutgod for the only other answer that wasn't snide to the point of being a discredit to the capacity for civility with atheists.

Judging atheists for responding to a post (that they likely read in its entirety before replying) by a theist on an atheist forum that is full of shit, kind of makes you a hypocrite Drinking Beverage

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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23-11-2015, 12:01 PM
RE: The actual truth about how the universe came into play
Quote:Atheists don't have to prove they are "civil". Being faced with the repeated stupidity posted by believers here week after week, it's entirely reasonable.
And your judgemental-superior post after a few minutes here is just as obnoxious.

So, if a theist comes into your yard, squats down and drops a steaming deuce on the lawn while screaming that the universe was created by Frank, and Frank wants a hot dog, that makes it ok to drop a log on top of his and scream there is no Frank with battle cry of "Here's your hotdog Frank!".

A turd for a turd?

! What does it accomplish or prove, to bow down, debasing yourself to meet a superstitious and irrational person on THEIR level? Last I checked, that caveman political system is EXACTLY what religions thrive on.
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23-11-2015, 12:04 PM
RE: The actual truth about how the universe came into play
(23-11-2015 12:01 PM)cainchild Wrote:  
Quote:Atheists don't have to prove they are "civil". Being faced with the repeated stupidity posted by believers here week after week, it's entirely reasonable.
And your judgemental-superior post after a few minutes here is just as obnoxious.

So, if a theist comes into your yard, squats down and drops a steaming deuce on the lawn while screaming that the universe was created by Frank, and Frank wants a hot dog, that makes it ok to drop a log on top of his and scream there is no Frank with battle cry of "Here's your hotdog Frank!".

A turd for a turd?

! What does it accomplish or prove, to bow down, debasing yourself to meet a superstitious and irrational person on THEIR level? Last I checked, that caveman political system is EXACTLY what religions thrive on.

This is an atheist forum and the way in which they behave dictates the way in which they are responded to.

No one has to abide by the rules you set for yourself, and no one asked for your opinion either Drinking Beverage

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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23-11-2015, 12:05 PM
RE: The actual truth about how the universe came into play
(23-11-2015 12:01 PM)cainchild Wrote:  
Quote:Atheists don't have to prove they are "civil". Being faced with the repeated stupidity posted by believers here week after week, it's entirely reasonable.
And your judgemental-superior post after a few minutes here is just as obnoxious.

So, if a theist comes into your yard, squats down and drops a steaming deuce on the lawn while screaming that the universe was created by Frank, and Frank wants a hot dog, that makes it ok to drop a log on top of his and scream there is no Frank with battle cry of "Here's your hotdog Frank!".

A turd for a turd?

! What does it accomplish or prove, to bow down, debasing yourself to meet a superstitious and irrational person on THEIR level? Last I checked, that caveman political system is EXACTLY what religions thrive on.

Look up: the fallacy of the false analogy.
Your judgement that sarcasm is "debasing" is stupid.
If you can't handle frank discussions, dear, stick to the nice sites.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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23-11-2015, 12:06 PM
RE: The actual truth about how the universe came into play
(23-11-2015 11:56 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(23-11-2015 11:42 AM)cainchild Wrote:  Instead of bashing the op in an effort to try and feel superior, and assuming that the poster is theistic, and thus incapable of thought and undeserving of being treated like a human, I will go ahead and bite. Blah Blah , something something scientists look under all the stones, even the ones we think are ridiculous.

Why do you assume that extreme complexity cannot emerge from even small amounts of chaos or entropy?
I would argue that putting 30 rubber balls in a paint mixer is going to result in a far more complex flight pattern for those balls than would filling it up completely in a highly organized fashion. In both cases complexity is going to increase if those balls break apart, and if they have the opportunity to move about randomly they have higher complexity from the start. Thus, my argument is that complexity actually requires a certain amount of disorganization, and increases(diminishes in certain cases) with alterations in scale. I mean, science can assert with at least some certainty that the universe was likely at it's most complex when it was far far younger. More balls bouncing around in a smaller universe.

The postulation that the universe came from nothing, is essentially a bad misinterpretation of questionable scientific theory and the unsubtle and pop-culture version of the free lunch. The reality in science is so much more...sciencey and complex. Occam's razor may be a useful tool, but in itself does not define scientific discoveries. The free lunch, from zero energy is one of many very much valid interpretations of that data. You'd do better in this case to argue in favor of M theory I think. After all, countless big bangs and countless collisions between differing dimensions or membranes is A LOT more complex than just this on immigrating from a sudden loss of homeostasis in a primordial nothingness.

And compliments to goodwithoutgod for the only other answer that wasn't snide to the point of being a discredit to the capacity for civility with atheists.

Judging atheists for responding to a post (that they likely read in its entirety before replying) by a theist on an atheist forum that is full of shit, kind of makes you a hypocrite Drinking Beverage

I get the frustration, my neighbors are bicycle Mormons. I don't see how it makes me a hypocrite not to sink to their level. Every time we meet at the mailbox they have little pamplets, but I don't point and call them retards, I treat them with respect because of what that says about me, not them. Convincing a theist on the internet that all Atheist are bastards leads to their ears and minds being forever closed in real life. That's my only point, not judgement.
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23-11-2015, 12:07 PM
RE: The actual truth about how the universe came into play
(23-11-2015 12:06 PM)cainchild Wrote:  
(23-11-2015 11:56 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Judging atheists for responding to a post (that they likely read in its entirety before replying) by a theist on an atheist forum that is full of shit, kind of makes you a hypocrite Drinking Beverage

I get the frustration, my neighbors are bicycle Mormons. I don't see how it makes me a hypocrite not to sink to their level. Every time we meet at the mailbox they have little pamplets, but I don't point and call them retards, I treat them with respect because of what that says about me, not them. Convincing a theist on the internet that all Atheist are bastards leads to their ears and minds being forever closed in real life. That's my only point, not judgement.

It is judgement. It's their job to seek truth.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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