The aerial warfare thread.
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01-04-2016, 04:39 AM
RE: The aeiral warfare thread.
(01-04-2016 01:45 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  The P38 was a great design. 2 Engines made for a safe return once one engine was shot up, good payload, good visibility, streamlined. It was the first long range escort the allies had. The Spit didnt come near that. Without the P38, the bombing campaign would have even been a lot worse than it actually was until late 1943.
It was too expensive thou. I read somewhere that for each P38, two P47s or P51s could be build, which were even better at escorting bombers. In A2G is finally proved how useful its payload was (western theatre). It definitely wasnt made for *clasisc* dogfights, chasing your own tail, it was simply too large. But in the east it showed what you can do with such a design if used properly.

The P38 was used to make the long range interception of Yamamoto during WWII. Charles Lindbergh, somewhat rehabilitated after his innocent assistance to the Nazis, advised the pilots on the best way to get the maximum range out of the planes.
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01-04-2016, 04:55 AM
RE: The aeiral warfare thread.
Attention, attention, we are interrupting our current program for the "Banjo P38 special", with pics (and a flyby) of a P38 i made myself at the 2011 "Hahnweide" airshow.

Enjoy!
Flyby:
[Image: th_DSCN0374.mp4]

[Image: p38-2.jpg~original]

[Image: p38-1.jpg~original]

[Image: P38_glare.jpg~original]

[Image: DSCN0387.jpg~original]


[Image: DSCN0384.jpg~original]

[Image: DSCN0383.jpg~original]

[Image: DSCN0382.jpg~original]

[Image: DSCN0381.jpg~original]

[Image: DSCN0380.jpg~original]

[Image: DSCN0379.jpg~original]

[Image: DSCN0378.jpg~original]
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01-04-2016, 07:24 AM
RE: The aeiral warfare thread.
The P-38 had counter-rotating propellers, but it was set up for maneuverability and not safety. Instead of the tips rotating towards each other at the top, they rotated away. This meant that during higher angles of attack, the line of thrust was outboard the engines. That is all fine when both are turning but when one is inoperative it raised the VSSE (Velocity Safe Single Engine ) significantly It was known as a pilot killer early on.
Once they figured out the speeds that were necessary for single engine operations the safety record improved.
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03-04-2016, 09:47 AM
RE: The aeiral warfare thread.
Always been interested in the subject. I joined my local ATC when I was 13, and hoped to go on to join the RAF and become a pilot... Then I had an eye test and found out I was colour blind. Which was a kick in the bollocks. But besides that, I started to hate the ATC, and all the military bullshit we had to do... So I left.

My grandfather was in the RAF during WWII... He wasn't a pilot, or any kind of aircrew. He drove trucks mainly... Ambulances, munitions, and a thing called a Queen Mary, which was used to transport fuselages. He managed to turn over a truck full of bombs on a hill, and watched as several thousand pounds of ordnance rolled into the town, fortunately they weren't fused. He still thought it best to leg it though.

He taught a Polish Spitfire pilot how to drive, and was given an ornate wooden cigarette holder as a thank you (which I now have). During the buildup to D-Day he was stationed with some American paratroopers, and was often given the job of sneaking into their motor pool at night to syphon petrol for his all his mates ciggy lighters... He was notorious for swiping parts off vehicles... I still have the grease gun he pinched off a Willys Jeep, and an escape axe he nicked off a crashed Lancaster. Big Grin

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03-04-2016, 09:52 AM
RE: The aeiral warfare thread.
(01-04-2016 04:55 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Attention, attention, we are interrupting our current program for the "Banjo P38 special", with pics (and a flyby) of a P38 i made myself at the 2011 "Hahnweide" airshow.

Enjoy!
Flyby:
[Image: th_DSCN0374.mp4]

[Image: p38-2.jpg~original]

[Image: p38-1.jpg~original]

[Image: P38_glare.jpg~original]

[Image: DSCN0387.jpg~original]


[Image: DSCN0384.jpg~original]

[Image: DSCN0383.jpg~original]

[Image: DSCN0382.jpg~original]

[Image: DSCN0381.jpg~original]

[Image: DSCN0380.jpg~original]

[Image: DSCN0379.jpg~original]

[Image: DSCN0378.jpg~original]

A more or less intact P38 has been found on a beach in North Wales... I heard somebody say it was going to be restored, but it looks like they're just going to leave it there.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wa...e-10217004

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04-04-2016, 05:05 PM
RE: The aeiral warfare thread.
(01-04-2016 07:24 AM)skyking Wrote:  The P-38 had counter-rotating propellers, but it was set up for maneuverability and not safety. Instead of the tips rotating towards each other at the top, they rotated away. This meant that during higher angles of attack, the line of thrust was outboard the engines. That is all fine when both are turning but when one is inoperative it raised the VSSE (Velocity Safe Single Engine ) significantly It was known as a pilot killer early on.
Once they figured out the speeds that were necessary for single engine operations the safety record improved.

Kelly and the design team at Lockheed were pretty much forced into this compromise. The XP-38 used counter rotating propellers with the port engine rotating clockwise to minimize adverse yaw from P-factor in single engine out operations. This aircraft crashed and subsequent accident investigations revealed that propwash vortices were accumulating over the center body section and tailplane, affecting longitudinal stability. The engines and propellers were swapped per side as there was no other alternative to solving this problem; pilots had to make due with the enhanced P-factor single engine out operations, which exist in most high performance twins, save a CE-337.

The P-38 was a fine performing fighter early in in the war, both in the Pacific and in Europe where there was a desperate need for long range escort fighters to cope with Nazi interceptors which were decimating the daylight bombing raids over Germany and France. But the sided engines and props made for an expensive aircraft to maintain and keep a supply line of spare parts for.

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

- Joel Chastnoff, The 188th Crybaby Brigade
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04-04-2016, 05:13 PM
RE: The aeiral warfare thread.
(26-12-2015 09:23 AM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  Dad is a retired Marine avionics and weapons officer so I grew up on Marine air bases. Constant exposure to aircraft like the A-1 Skyraider, A-4 Skyhawk, A-6 Intruder, F-8 Crusader, F-4 Phantom II, Harrier, CH-34, UH-1 and AH-1 gave me a lasting interest in military aircraft.

I read a lot of books about WW1, 2 and Korean War air combat. John Bolt and Pappy Boyington were my heroes. I've seen the Blue Angles fly F-11, F-4, A-4 and F-18, and thought the Harrier was the coolest thing ever when I saw my first one in the late 60s or early 70s. My favorite WW2 plane is the P-47 Thunderbolt. After that probably the A-1. A massive propeller driven attack aircraft that saw service in the US from 46 until 85. It could be configured to carry just about any kind of conventional ordinance.

[Image: Napepot.jpg]

There's actually a great story behind that photo. Note the toilet attached to the outboard bomb rack on that A-1D. This in an excerpt from the pilot aboard that Douglas A-1D from VA-25, which flew it from the carrier Midway (CV-41) and dropped it in Viet Cong positions in October, 1965.

----I was a pilot in VA-25 on the 1965 Vietnam cruise.

572 was flown by CDR C. W. "Bill" Stoddard. His wingman in 577 (which was my assigned airplane) was LCDR Robin Bacon, who had a wing station mounted movie camera (the only one remaining in the fleet from WWII).

The flight was a Dixie Station strike (South Vietnam) going to the Delta. When they arrived in the target area and CDR Stoddard was reading the ordnance list to the FAC, he ended with "and one code name Sani-Flush". The FAC couldn't believe it and joined up to see it. It was dropped in a dive with LCDR Bacon flying tight wing position to film the drop. When it came off, it turned hole to the wind and almost struck his airplane. It made a great ready room movie. The FAC said that it whistled all the way down.

The toilet was a damaged toilet, which was going to be thrown overboard. One of our plane captains rescued it and the ordnance crew made a rack, tailfins and nose fuse for it. Our checkers maintained a position to block the view of the air boss and the Captain while the aircraft was taxiing forward. Just as it was being shot off we got a 1MC message from the bridge, "What the hell was on 572's right wing?" There were a lot of jokes with air intelligence about germ warfare. I wish that we had saved the movie film. CDR Stoddard was later killed while flying 572 in Oct 1966. He was hit by three SAMs over Vinh.

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

- Joel Chastnoff, The 188th Crybaby Brigade
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04-04-2016, 05:25 PM
RE: The aeiral warfare thread.
(03-04-2016 09:52 AM)Sam Wrote:  
(01-04-2016 04:55 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Attention, attention, we are interrupting our current program for the "Banjo P38 special", with pics (and a flyby) of a P38 i made myself at the 2011 "Hahnweide" airshow.

Enjoy!
Flyby:
[Image: th_DSCN0374.mp4]

[Image: p38-2.jpg~original]

[Image: p38-1.jpg~original]

[Image: P38_glare.jpg~original]

[Image: DSCN0387.jpg~original]


[Image: DSCN0384.jpg~original]

[Image: DSCN0383.jpg~original]

[Image: DSCN0382.jpg~original]

[Image: DSCN0381.jpg~original]

[Image: DSCN0380.jpg~original]

[Image: DSCN0379.jpg~original]

[Image: DSCN0378.jpg~original]

A more or less intact P38 has been found on a beach in North Wales... I heard somebody say it was going to be restored, but it looks like they're just going to leave it there.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wa...e-10217004

Also if you have an hour or so, this was a great show about Daryl Greenamyer's attempt to recover an abandoned B-29 in Greenland; all for bitter naught as you will see in the show.




"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

- Joel Chastnoff, The 188th Crybaby Brigade
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04-04-2016, 05:59 PM
RE: The aeiral warfare thread.
(04-04-2016 05:05 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  
(01-04-2016 07:24 AM)skyking Wrote:  The P-38 had counter-rotating propellers, but it was set up for maneuverability and not safety. Instead of the tips rotating towards each other at the top, they rotated away. This meant that during higher angles of attack, the line of thrust was outboard the engines. That is all fine when both are turning but when one is inoperative it raised the VSSE (Velocity Safe Single Engine ) significantly It was known as a pilot killer early on.
Once they figured out the speeds that were necessary for single engine operations the safety record improved.

Kelly and the design team at Lockheed were pretty much forced into this compromise. The XP-38 used counter rotating propellers with the port engine rotating clockwise to minimize adverse yaw from P-factor in single engine out operations. This aircraft crashed and subsequent accident investigations revealed that propwash vortices were accumulating over the center body section and tailplane, affecting longitudinal stability. The engines and propellers were swapped per side as there was no other alternative to solving this problem; pilots had to make due with the enhanced P-factor single engine out operations, which exist in most high performance twins, save a CE-337.

The P-38 was a fine performing fighter early in in the war, both in the Pacific and in Europe where there was a desperate need for long range escort fighters to cope with Nazi interceptors which were decimating the daylight bombing raids over Germany and France. But the sided engines and props made for an expensive aircraft to maintain and keep a supply line of spare parts for.
Must have been a function of the twin verticals, because that is a hefty price to pay with both engines being critical engines Wink
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08-04-2016, 10:33 AM
RE: The aeiral warfare thread.
262 and 109 are gonna be at Hahnweide again this year.

I am 100% there (and my digicam). Drooling
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