The amazing fatty acid synthase nano factories, and origin of life scenarios
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29-08-2015, 08:19 PM
RE: The amazing fatty acid synthase nano factories, and origin of life scenarios
(29-08-2015 06:40 PM)Godexists Wrote:  So nobody wants to take a stance, and actually address my arguments ??
Ahm...... actually, thats probably the best strategy in order to hide that the emperor has no cloths.

Hey, GodExcretes, you posted:
(02-03-2014 10:56 PM)Godexists Wrote:  
(02-03-2014 10:50 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Seriously, I'm gone a week and I have to come back to this drek? Facepalm

Indeed, i think the same . Thats why i am done. I am wasting my time with fool ignorants, and in puberty being ranting schoolyard boy's.

last post at this board. Hobo

How about you keep to Plan A and just fuck off?

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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30-08-2015, 05:25 AM
RE: The amazing fatty acid synthase nano factories, and origin of life scenarios
(28-08-2015 09:06 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(28-08-2015 08:54 AM)Godexists Wrote:  This constitutes a serious problem for naturalistic explanations of the origin of life. The pentose phosphate pathway requires 7 enzymes, and is interdependent with glycolysis...

<snip>

The fatty acids are useless without the amino acids, and vice versa . Even if some kind of metabolic cycle were to be envisioned under semi-realistic conditions, how did this elaborate machine, composed of amino acids with precise charge distributions, arise?

Argument from personal incredulity.

We're already done here, folks.

Yep, this troll's got nothing.

Molecular biology is complex! Therefore gaaaaaaaaaawd!

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Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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30-08-2015, 06:14 AM
RE: The amazing fatty acid synthase nano factories, and origin of life scenarios
(29-08-2015 08:13 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  By the way, for anyone who is curious, the Jet Propulsion Lab at NASA has been doing experiments and learning about the formation of phospholipid cell coatings for decades, now.

Don't go getting all sciencey on us here. This is an argument based on ignorance and incredulity and we ain't got room for no evidence or any of that facts stuff.
Now if you can't refute his refusal to understand he wins. QED
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30-08-2015, 06:30 AM
RE: The amazing fatty acid synthase nano factories, and origin of life scenarios
(29-08-2015 08:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  How about you keep to Plan A and just fuck off?

In a perfect world, we'd just strap a rocket to his ass and call it a day. Dodgy

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30-08-2015, 07:46 AM
RE: The amazing fatty acid synthase nano factories, and origin of life scenarios
The argument from incredulity cuts both ways: If biology is so complicated that they cannot imagine how it could have arisen without god, then god is even more inconceivable (a magic man outside of space and time??? What does that even mean?) and therefore biology MUST have arisen by naturalistic means.

Of course, arguing with these nutters is frustrating because one of them who actually has the ability to formulate an argument, does so, and then all the others just copy it. When new science produces answers to the original argument, all those people copying it (none of whom actually understand what they are copying) remain blissfully ignorant of the new science and keep quoting the discredited arguments.

This happened when new fossils were discovered outlining the evolution of cetaceans, and the nutters kept quoting old arguments claiming there were no intermediate fossils in the cetacean line. How much more frustrating when their "argument" is five pages of quasi-molecular-biology and fails to even address the most basic principle of natural selection: that features and processes arise in one context and then turn out to have utility in another and that complex processes and structures never appear fully-formed, but progress through a myriad of intermediate stages, each of which confers entirely different survival advantages.

The OP's argument is simply that fatty acid synthesis is too complex to have appeared fully-formed. The rebuttal is equally simple: It didn't appear fully formed. It evolved gradually. The OP claims that modern cells cannot exist without their fatty acid membranes but since he begins with his conclusion (that evolution does not happen) he rejects out of hand the actual fact that modern cells have evolved over aeons from something far simpler.

He allows only two possibilities: Either modern cells spontaneously appeared exactly as they are now, or god made them. Since he begins with his conclusion: that nothing changes, no scientific argument will reach his brain. Arguing with him is like arguing with a duck. No matter what you say, the duck will not understand you. It will just go on being a duck.

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30-08-2015, 09:23 AM
RE: The amazing fatty acid synthase nano factories, and origin of life scenarios
(30-08-2015 06:14 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(29-08-2015 08:13 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  By the way, for anyone who is curious, the Jet Propulsion Lab at NASA has been doing experiments and learning about the formation of phospholipid cell coatings for decades, now.

Don't go getting all sciencey on us here. This is an argument based on ignorance and incredulity and we ain't got room for no evidence or any of that facts stuff.
Now if you can't refute his refusal to understand he wins. QED
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Had you read and understood my article , you would acknowledge that my assertion that the listed parts are required to make fatty acids is not taken from hot air, but is based on scientic evidence, information i got from mainstream , peer reviewed scientific papers. So you have to deal with the quest how these parts were able to emerge simultanously, and got interconnected in a functional way. And there is still the catch22 situation.....
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30-08-2015, 09:33 AM
RE: The amazing fatty acid synthase nano factories, and origin of life scenarios
(30-08-2015 07:46 AM)daniel1948 Wrote:  The argument from incredulity cuts both ways: If biology is so complicated that they cannot imagine how it could have arisen without god, then god is even more inconceivable (a magic man outside of space and time??? What does that even mean?) and therefore biology MUST have arisen by naturalistic means.

I agree with everything you said but this. The difference between their argument from personal incredulity is based on ignorance of the facts and/or presuppositions that have no basis in fact (as you did an excellent job of demonstrating in the rest of your post).

On the other hand, it is not an argument from personal incredulity to state that there is no reason to suppose a new and entirely-undetectable force of nature (or beyond nature, since these are supernatural claims) based simply on their assertions. It is not because it is inconceivable, but because it is non-demonstrable in any meaningful way, and there is no reason to insert a layer of supernatural causation into a realm that demonstrates natural causation in every phenomenon we have disovered.

Yet because it is not inconceivable that there is some "magic man" outside of space and time, most of us admit to a degree of philosophical agnosticism, which does not reach into our actual opinions about how it works because, again, the concept is by definition not relevant to the actually-observed means by which the universe operates.

It is clear to any person who considers the subject with honesty that the things we now know to be entirely physical were once thought of as being supernaturally caused, usually by a god-- for instance, the discovery that nuclear fusion powers the sun, which "goes around us" because earth spins, rather than it being a god or an object borne by a "light-bearer". When presented with another "we don't know therefore God" argument wherever believers can find a gap of knowledge in which to shove their gods, the element of human psychology at work is evident from the historical record. It is not personal incredulity to state that I'm pretty damned sure the sun's progress across the sky is not the result of Apollo or his divine chariot.

When they state matters of incredulity based on things we can and do know, it is really just ignorance added to pride. They are incredulous because they pridefully think they already have all the answers, and do not wish to consider new evidence; indeed, they refuse to consider new evidence that might conflict with their cherished ignorance. I have yet to see an agnostic/atheist operate in this manner.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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30-08-2015, 09:39 AM
RE: The amazing fatty acid synthase nano factories, and origin of life scenarios
(30-08-2015 09:23 AM)Godexists Wrote:  Had you read and understood my article , you would acknowledge that my assertion that the listed parts are required to make fatty acids is not taken from hot air, but is based on scientic evidence, information i got from mainstream , peer reviewed scientific papers. So you have to deal with the quest how these parts were able to emerge simultanously, and got interconnected in a functional way. And there is still the catch22 situation.....

Hi there, Godexists. You seem to think we just met. I have dealt with your "arguments" before, and they are flawed beyond belief.

When you say, "I got them from mainstream, peer reviewed scientific papers", what you means is you quote-mined them out of context. I once spent an entire afternoon hunting down papers you pulled things out of context to post, including a fake journal which was designed to look like a real one, posted false information about "new research" and was made precisely for the purpose of fooling the layperson. I am not chasing down your quote-mining operations again.

When you say, "So you have to deal with the quest[ion] how these parts were able to emerge simultanously [sic]", you demonstrate that you do not understand how biological evolution works, and are presenting a false dichotomy. Daniel did an excellent job of summarizing the problem with this approach, and it irritates the begeezus out of me that you refuse to understand the basic flaw in your approach, refuse to listen to us about why it is a flaw, and refuse to be intellectually honest enough to go "oops, sorry!" and amend it.

If and when you present a real argument, I will happily address it. There are few things I enjoy more in this world than a debate on (actual) biology.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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30-08-2015, 09:43 AM
RE: The amazing fatty acid synthase nano factories, and origin of life scenarios
(30-08-2015 09:23 AM)Godexists Wrote:  
(30-08-2015 06:14 AM)unfogged Wrote:  Don't go getting all sciencey on us here. This is an argument based on ignorance and incredulity and we ain't got room for no evidence or any of that facts stuff.
Now if you can't refute his refusal to understand he wins. QED
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Had you read and understood my article , you would acknowledge that my assertion that the listed parts are required to make fatty acids is not taken from hot air, but is based on scientic evidence, information i got from mainstream , peer reviewed scientific papers. So you have to deal with the quest how these parts were able to emerge simultanously, and got interconnected in a functional way. And there is still the catch22 situation.....

I understand your argument. You cherry-pick things to support your contention that since we don't have absolute, finely detailed information about some particular topic we must conclude that there is a god. Even when you aren't misrepresenting the material or using outdated references you are offering nothing except the arguments from ignorance and personal incredulity. Your not comprehending how something could have happened is not evidence. You appear to be desperate to prop up your faith with things that sound scientific but it is nothing but a house of cards. Why don't you go troll a theistic forum where they will no doubt laud you for your scientific acumen.

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30-08-2015, 04:39 PM
RE: The amazing fatty acid synthase nano factories, and origin of life scenarios
(30-08-2015 07:46 AM)daniel1948 Wrote:  The OP's argument is simply that fatty acid synthesis is too complex to have appeared fully-formed.

Hobo

you seem to have some difficulty of comprehension. Specially, as i outlined what my argument is. I suggest you read it again. I will not post it for you again.
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