The amazing fatty acid synthase nano factories, and origin of life scenarios
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30-08-2015, 06:00 PM
RE: The amazing fatty acid synthase nano factories, and origin of life scenarios
(30-08-2015 04:39 PM)Godexists Wrote:  I will not post it for you again.

Clap

Why is it always that the atheist is expected to be an evolutionary biologist, a quantum theorist, a philosopher... while the theist is like, "Jesus, bro?" Dodgy

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31-08-2015, 12:00 AM
RE: The amazing fatty acid synthase nano factories, and origin of life scenarios
(30-08-2015 06:00 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(30-08-2015 04:39 PM)Godexists Wrote:  I will not post it for you again.

Clap

Why is it always that the atheist is expected to be an evolutionary biologist, a quantum theorist, a philosopher... while the theist is like, "Jesus, bro?" Dodgy

You forgot the master's degrees in history, Ancient Near East languages, psychology, and sociology, and the doctorate in Theology we all are required to have.

It actually blows me away how much people here actually know, and how common it is for us to be conversant on all those subjects to at least a "skilled layperson" standard.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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31-08-2015, 12:47 AM
RE: The amazing fatty acid synthase nano factories, and origin of life scenarios
(30-08-2015 04:39 PM)Godexists Wrote:  
(30-08-2015 07:46 AM)daniel1948 Wrote:  The OP's argument is simply that fatty acid synthesis is too complex to have appeared fully-formed.

Hobo

you seem to have some difficulty of comprehension. Specially, as i outlined what my argument is. I suggest you read it again. I will not post it for you again.

You seem to have difficulty remembering. You already called out your last post, so go fuck yourself. You don't get to stomp off stage in a huff after loudly announcing your exit stage left, and expect anything but pure derision on your comeback in that basis alone.

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31-08-2015, 09:17 AM
RE: The amazing fatty acid synthase nano factories, and origin of life scenarios
OK, I haven't gone through all of the post, but GE is just lifting other people's writting. This paragraph comes from Garrett and Grisham's Biochemistry text".

(28-08-2015 08:54 AM)Godexists Wrote:  Eukaryotic cells face a dilemma in providing suitable amounts of substrate for fatty acid synthesis. Sufficient quantities of acetyl-CoA, malonyl-CoA, and NADPH must be generated in the cytosol for fatty acid synthesis. Malonyl-CoA is made by carboxylation of acetyl-CoA, so the problem reduces to generating sufficient acetyl-CoA and NADPH. There are three principal sources of acetyl-CoA. The acetyl-CoA derived from amino acid degradation is normally insufficient for fatty acid biosynthesis, and the acetyl-CoA produced by pyruvate dehydrogenase and by fatty acid oxidation cannot cross the mitochondrial membrane to participate directly in fatty acid synthesis. Instead, acetyl-CoA is linked with oxaloacetate to form citrate, which is transported from the mitochondrial matrix to the cytosol by citrate carriers (CIC), nuclear-encoded proteins located in the mitochondrial inner membrane, members of the mitochondrial carrier family. Biosynthesis of oxaloacetate requires malate dehydrogenase enzymes or, in plants, pyruvate carboxylase enzymes.

This next one comes from the article that describes the X-ray crystal structure of FAS:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/art...7407003297

(28-08-2015 08:54 AM)Godexists Wrote:  The crystal structure of yeast FAS reveals that this large, macromolecular assembly functions as a six-chambered reactor for fatty acid synthesis. Each of the six chambers functions independently and has in its chamber wall all of the catalytic units required for fatty acid priming, elongation, and termination, while one substrate-shuttling component, ACP, is located inside each chamber and functions like a swinging arm. Surprisingly, however, the step at which the reactor is activated must occur before the complete assembly of the particle since the PPT domain that attaches the pantetheine arm to ACP lies outside the assembly,inaccessible to ACP that lies inside. Remarkably, the architectural complexity of the FAS particle results in the simplicity of the reaction mechanisms for fatty acid synthesis in fungi.

These were two randomly chosen paragraphs and they happened to be plagiarized in the "article". I am sure there is more...
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31-08-2015, 09:25 AM
RE: The amazing fatty acid synthase nano factories, and origin of life scenarios
Maybe we could start a pool on the next irreducibly absurd argument we get from GE. Hey how about the TCA cycle? You remove one enzyme and you no longer have a cycle. Hey, how about glycolysis? How about the pyruvate dehydrogenase complex itself?
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31-08-2015, 09:54 AM
RE: The amazing fatty acid synthase nano factories, and origin of life scenarios
It's an unfortunate habit the ID/IC crowd picked up after they noticed that scientists tend, out of a habit of intellectual honesty, to state the problem they are addressing before they address it. ID/IC proponents just quote the "the problem appears to be" section, then omit the word "...but," and everything that comes after the "but". Then they say, "See? Famous scientist DOCTOR Joe Smith says that this is 'a problem' for evolution." Rolleyes

Famously, it started with the quote in On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, where Darwin says: "To suppose that the eye, with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest possible degree. Yet reason tells me, that if numerous gradation..." (He goes on to explain why it's not as absurd as it sounds at first glance.) (No pun intended. Bold emphasis on original website, linked below.)

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Quote_mining

What amazes me is not that they do this, or that their followers copypasta the misquoted sections without verifying for themselves that this is what the scientist is really trying to say, but the fact that when they're shown that they quoted the guy out of context to make him seem to say the opposite of what was actually said, they don't stop and go, "Wow, that was really dishonest, even if I did it accidentally. I'm sorry, guys!"

Nope, they immediately do it again with a new quote, and every single time, they keep thinking, "Aha! Gotcha!"

Amazing, and infuriating, and sad.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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31-08-2015, 09:59 AM
RE: The amazing fatty acid synthase nano factories, and origin of life scenarios
(31-08-2015 09:17 AM)Iñigo Wrote:  OK, I haven't gone through all of the post, but GE is just lifting other people's writting. This paragraph comes from Garrett and Grisham's Biochemistry text".

(28-08-2015 08:54 AM)Godexists Wrote:  Eukaryotic cells face a dilemma in providing suitable amounts of substrate for fatty acid synthesis. Sufficient quantities of acetyl-CoA, malonyl-CoA, and NADPH must be generated in the cytosol for fatty acid synthesis. Malonyl-CoA is made by carboxylation of acetyl-CoA, so the problem reduces to generating sufficient acetyl-CoA and NADPH. There are three principal sources of acetyl-CoA. The acetyl-CoA derived from amino acid degradation is normally insufficient for fatty acid biosynthesis, and the acetyl-CoA produced by pyruvate dehydrogenase and by fatty acid oxidation cannot cross the mitochondrial membrane to participate directly in fatty acid synthesis. Instead, acetyl-CoA is linked with oxaloacetate to form citrate, which is transported from the mitochondrial matrix to the cytosol by citrate carriers (CIC), nuclear-encoded proteins located in the mitochondrial inner membrane, members of the mitochondrial carrier family. Biosynthesis of oxaloacetate requires malate dehydrogenase enzymes or, in plants, pyruvate carboxylase enzymes.

This next one comes from the article that describes the X-ray crystal structure of FAS:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/art...7407003297

(28-08-2015 08:54 AM)Godexists Wrote:  The crystal structure of yeast FAS reveals that this large, macromolecular assembly functions as a six-chambered reactor for fatty acid synthesis. Each of the six chambers functions independently and has in its chamber wall all of the catalytic units required for fatty acid priming, elongation, and termination, while one substrate-shuttling component, ACP, is located inside each chamber and functions like a swinging arm. Surprisingly, however, the step at which the reactor is activated must occur before the complete assembly of the particle since the PPT domain that attaches the pantetheine arm to ACP lies outside the assembly,inaccessible to ACP that lies inside. Remarkably, the architectural complexity of the FAS particle results in the simplicity of the reaction mechanisms for fatty acid synthesis in fungi.

These were two randomly chosen paragraphs and they happened to be plagiarized in the "article". I am sure there is more...

all references are in my articles. Also this one.
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31-08-2015, 10:01 AM
RE: The amazing fatty acid synthase nano factories, and origin of life scenarios
(31-08-2015 09:25 AM)Iñigo Wrote:  Maybe we could start a pool on the next irreducibly absurd argument we get from GE. Hey how about the TCA cycle? You remove one enzyme and you no longer have a cycle. Hey, how about glycolysis? How about the pyruvate dehydrogenase complex itself?

I don't think they are not reducible. It seems specially the TCA cicle is reducible. So what ? That does not mean the problem for proponents of naturalism is solved.

How these metabolic cycles came to be is a unresolved issue, and is hard to explain by natural means.
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31-08-2015, 10:05 AM
RE: The amazing fatty acid synthase nano factories, and origin of life scenarios
(31-08-2015 10:01 AM)Godexists Wrote:  
(31-08-2015 09:25 AM)Iñigo Wrote:  Maybe we could start a pool on the next irreducibly absurd argument we get from GE. Hey how about the TCA cycle? You remove one enzyme and you no longer have a cycle. Hey, how about glycolysis? How about the pyruvate dehydrogenase complex itself?

I don't think they are not reducible. It seems specially the TCA cicle is reducible. So what ? That does not mean the problem for proponents of naturalism is solved.

How these metabolic cycles came to be is a unresolved issue, and is hard to explain by natural means.

Your ignorance and incredulity do not constitute an argument. Drinking Beverage

It's hard to explain? OK. So what? It's easier to just say "God did it"? That's lazy.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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31-08-2015, 10:08 AM
RE: The amazing fatty acid synthase nano factories, and origin of life scenarios
(31-08-2015 10:01 AM)Godexists Wrote:  I don't think they are not reducible. It seems specially the TCA cicle is reducible. So what ? That does not mean the problem for proponents of naturalism is solved.

That is actually exactly what it means.

(31-08-2015 10:01 AM)Godexists Wrote:  How these metabolic cycles came to be is a unresolved issue, and is hard to explain by natural means.

(28-08-2015 09:06 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  Argument from personal incredulity.

We're already done here, folks.

(29-08-2015 07:11 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  Incredulity is not an argument.

(31-08-2015 10:05 AM)Chas Wrote:  Your ignorance and incredulity do not constitute an argument. Drinking Beverage

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