The answer for timothy 2:12
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25-09-2012, 07:32 PM
RE: The answer for timothy 2:12
I thank you all for your insight. I'm just angry at religion and how they can openly talk about such non sense, but when I talk about my beliefs and my thoughts or merely just my opinion, they treat it as if they're walking on glass or they're gonna be zapped by lighting on the spot.

Thanks guys. I welcome all your posts!

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25-09-2012, 08:00 PM
RE: The answer for timothy 2:12
(25-09-2012 05:53 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  And by Christians, I mean you too, KingsChosen. Remember the "context" of this verse is finding it inside of a book of instruction for how to live a Christian lifestyle.

No. The "context" of the Bible is a collection of books that is believed to be inspired by God and is instructions to those to whom it's written to.

It's not one cohesive book with one all encompassing lesson.

Quote:There's no reason to assume that it for the women of Ephesus only, especially since the bible does not make that specification.

Are you series? No, the Bible doesn't make that specification because the Bible wasn't the Bible when it was written; therefore, couldn't make that specification.

HOWEVER, the book itself very much makes the specification that it is written to Ephesian women... since it was written to Timothy... as instructions... to his church... in Ephesus.

So, no... you're very wrong. The instructions are very specific.

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25-09-2012, 08:35 PM (This post was last modified: 25-09-2012 08:41 PM by Starcrash.)
RE: The answer for timothy 2:12
(25-09-2012 08:00 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(25-09-2012 05:53 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  And by Christians, I mean you too, KingsChosen. Remember the "context" of this verse is finding it inside of a book of instruction for how to live a Christian lifestyle.

No. The "context" of the Bible is a collection of books that is believed to be inspired by God and is instructions to those to whom it's written to.

It's not one cohesive book with one all encompassing lesson.

Quote:There's no reason to assume that it for the women of Ephesus only, especially since the bible does not make that specification.

Are you series? No, the Bible doesn't make that specification because the Bible wasn't the Bible when it was written; therefore, couldn't make that specification.

HOWEVER, the book itself very much makes the specification that it is written to Ephesian women... since it was written to Timothy... as instructions... to his church... in Ephesus.

So, no... you're very wrong. The instructions are very specific.

You're setting up a double-standard with the instructions that you want to follow and the instructions that you'd rather remain directed at their specific audience, because EVERYTHING in the bible is written to an audience other than the reader. Consider this specific reference to this audience:

Quote:And God spoke all these words:

I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

“You shall have no other gods before me.

“You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

Now it's funny, because I don't remember ever being brought out of Egypt or out of slavery. So should I ignore the commandments that follow because God wasn't talking to me? Consider also that this is from the Old Testament, a bunch of things told to a people that lived in a tribal community unlike our own. Does this mean that, because their culture was so different, that I should ignore these commandments? The 10 commandments are literally the only place in the bible that we're commanded not to steal or kill. Does this mean I'm free to steal and kill?

Like I said, context is only raised when defending scripture that is clearly immoral or inapplicable (such as eating pig).

Now you say that we should consider the bible as inspired word rather than as a guidebook to Christian living, but what exactly do you mean by "inspired"? Could a Christian not justify misogyny by pointing out that the "inspired" word suggested it? There's obvious logical backing behind someone reading a commandment, even one written to a different audience (do I have to make the point in all caps again?) and saying "that must apply to me and my church, too".

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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25-09-2012, 11:37 PM
RE: The answer for timothy 2:12
(25-09-2012 08:00 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(25-09-2012 05:53 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  And by Christians, I mean you too, KingsChosen. Remember the "context" of this verse is finding it inside of a book of instruction for how to live a Christian lifestyle.

No. The "context" of the Bible is a collection of books that is believed to be inspired by God and is instructions to those to whom it's written to.
That's your Calvinist belief.

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26-09-2012, 09:00 AM
RE: The answer for timothy 2:12
Either it is an instruction guide for everyone or it isn't. You can't pick and choose according to convenience. If it is god's divine word than perhaps god should have employed a better editor because it is poorly written.
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26-09-2012, 09:24 AM
The answer for timothy 2:12
This thread confuses me. What was the question that needed an answer?

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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26-09-2012, 11:01 AM (This post was last modified: 26-09-2012 11:05 AM by kim.)
RE: The answer for timothy 2:12
(26-09-2012 09:24 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  This thread confuses me. What was the question that needed an answer?

Ha! - I think the discussion has to do with "defensive interpretation" of scripture by Christee folk. They're having to answer for their own shitty representation of women (among other things, I'm sure) and their rationalization of it as being some momentary lapse in judgement due to misinterpretation of their goofy rule book.

It's like ... Consider ... having a Trekkie answer to all the sexist stuff of the 1st Star Trek shows and them saying, "Well, that was how things were when it was written, it doesn't mean that's how it's supposed to be taken now. However, the basic premise is what is supposed to be followed - cause it's really so fucking great - and it's ALL TRUE!!!!"
"IT'S TRUE, DO YOU HEAR ME? IT'S TRUE!!!!"

Something like that. Drinking Beverage

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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26-09-2012, 11:36 AM
RE: The answer for timothy 2:12
(26-09-2012 11:01 AM)kim Wrote:  
(26-09-2012 09:24 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  This thread confuses me. What was the question that needed an answer?

Ha! - I think the discussion has to do with "defensive interpretation" of scripture by Christee folk. They're having to answer for their own shitty representation of women (among other things, I'm sure) and their rationalization of it as being some momentary lapse in judgement due to misinterpretation of their goofy rule book.

It's like ... Consider ... having a Trekkie answer to all the sexist stuff of the 1st Star Trek shows and them saying, "Well, that was how things were when it was written, it doesn't mean that's how it's supposed to be taken now. However, the basic premise is what is supposed to be followed - cause it's really so fucking great - and it's ALL TRUE!!!!"
"IT'S TRUE, DO YOU HEAR ME? IT'S TRUE!!!!"

Something like that. Drinking Beverage


That was nice.

Before you see the light, you must die!
Through the fear you're sold into the fraud
It's my obsession, to treat (g)od like an infection
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26-09-2012, 01:36 PM
The answer for timothy 2:12
(26-09-2012 11:01 AM)kim Wrote:  
(26-09-2012 09:24 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  This thread confuses me. What was the question that needed an answer?

Ha! - I think the discussion has to do with "defensive interpretation" of scripture by Christee folk. They're having to answer for their own shitty representation of women (among other things, I'm sure) and their rationalization of it as being some momentary lapse in judgement due to misinterpretation of their goofy rule book.

It's like ... Consider ... having a Trekkie answer to all the sexist stuff of the 1st Star Trek shows and them saying, "Well, that was how things were when it was written, it doesn't mean that's how it's supposed to be taken now. However, the basic premise is what is supposed to be followed - cause it's really so fucking great - and it's ALL TRUE!!!!"
"IT'S TRUE, DO YOU HEAR ME? IT'S TRUE!!!!"

Something like that. Drinking Beverage

Oh. So it's like saying, I have the answer to your question about why purple unicorns are superior to pink unicorns.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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26-09-2012, 02:09 PM
RE: The answer for timothy 2:12
(26-09-2012 01:36 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Oh. So it's like saying, I have the answer to your question about why purple unicorns are superior to pink unicorns.

Yep.
You know you're among Christians when questions about the interpretations, need interpreting by interpreters, so the interpretations can be properly interpreted to be the correct interpretations. Wink

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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