The argument from desire
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21-12-2015, 08:34 PM
RE: The argument from desire
(21-12-2015 08:25 PM)lostinthought Wrote:  
(21-12-2015 08:20 PM)jennybee Wrote:  I know when I was Catholic--we were taught right out of the womb about God in my family. I think some Christians/Catholics don't know anything else and because it was reiterated so early on, they believe they were born with this desire for god, when in reality, it was simply brainwashing and learned behavior.

Thats got me confused, and one of the reasons why I'm asking. At what point does it stop being a natural desire and turn into an artificial desire? I know for me, it feels more like an artificial desire than a natural one. The natural desire in me just seems to hope there is anything, something else after this. However, because of the culture I was raised in, the christian god is a big part of that desire for 'something', but it feels artificially inserted.

That's because it was artificially inserted. If you grew up in another part of the world or in another place or time, you would have a different set of beliefs from Christianity. If you lived in India, for example, you may be Hindu.

To illustrate god(s) are artificial: The Greeks believed their gods were real. So did the Egyptians. So did many other cultures/societies--each with their own set of beliefs/their own gods. If a belief in the Christian god was the "right" one--then why all these other gods and belief systems? Instead, everyone would be born knowing the same religion, the same god., which clearly isn't the case.
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22-12-2015, 01:30 AM
RE: The argument from desire
(21-12-2015 08:16 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(21-12-2015 07:32 PM)lostinthought Wrote:  Where do christians find the basis for this theory that we are all born with a natural desire to know god?
Is it biblical?
Is it something that they've just decided?
Do other religions find this to be true, or just the christians?

Ecclesiastes 3:11 (ASV) He hath made everything beautiful in its time: also he hath set eternity in their heart, yet so that man cannot find out the work that God hath done from the beginning even to the end.

so god again admits he doesn't want people to know he exists, doesn't want them to know what and how he does thing nor anything else for that matter

how many instances in the bible does god say this ?
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23-12-2015, 02:55 AM
RE: The argument from desire
Desire is a natural thing. To desire that which is of the material is foolish past the point of sustinance. There is only one way to permanently and fully quench desire, and that is within the eternal direction of God for the sake of being.
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23-12-2015, 02:58 AM
RE: The argument from desire
(21-12-2015 08:24 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  
(21-12-2015 07:32 PM)lostinthought Wrote:  Where do christians find the basis for this theory that we are all born with a natural desire to know god?
Is it biblical?
Is it something that they've just decided?
Do other religions find this to be true, or just the christians?

Because they're trying to debunk the atheist stance that we are born atheist and would not have gods except for indoctrination.
Never heard of that stance and myself am proof that isn't the case, is only a singular case.
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23-12-2015, 03:02 AM
RE: The argument from desire
(21-12-2015 08:34 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(21-12-2015 08:25 PM)lostinthought Wrote:  Thats got me confused, and one of the reasons why I'm asking. At what point does it stop being a natural desire and turn into an artificial desire? I know for me, it feels more like an artificial desire than a natural one. The natural desire in me just seems to hope there is anything, something else after this. However, because of the culture I was raised in, the christian god is a big part of that desire for 'something', but it feels artificially inserted.

That's because it was artificially inserted. If you grew up in another part of the world or in another place or time, you would have a different set of beliefs from Christianity. If you lived in India, for example, you may be Hindu.

To illustrate god(s) are artificial: The Greeks believed their gods were real. So did the Egyptians. So did many other cultures/societies--each with their own set of beliefs/their own gods. If a belief in the Christian god was the "right" one--then why all these other gods and belief systems? Instead, everyone would be born knowing the same religion, the same god., which clearly isn't the case.
Divisions is talked about and referenced with the tower of babble. In reality there is but One Creator GOD. This truth is being realized more daily. Names are a derivative of greed and lust for power, not the direction of God.
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23-12-2015, 03:04 AM
RE: The argument from desire
(22-12-2015 01:30 AM)Ace Wrote:  
(21-12-2015 08:16 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Ecclesiastes 3:11 (ASV) He hath made everything beautiful in its time: also he hath set eternity in their heart, yet so that man cannot find out the work that God hath done from the beginning even to the end.

so god again admits he doesn't want people to know he exists, doesn't want them to know what and how he does thing nor anything else for that matter

how many instances in the bible does god say this ?
It's more like a matter of time, or a sequence of events that will take place prior to the second coming. God will be known at some point, as will our direction in thanksgiving and love.
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23-12-2015, 03:04 AM
RE: The argument from desire
(23-12-2015 02:55 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Desire is a natural thing. To desire that which is of the material is foolish past the point of sustinance. There is only one way to permanently and fully quench desire, and that is within the eternal direction of God for the sake of being.

define your god before you start rambling on about it
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23-12-2015, 03:08 AM (This post was last modified: 23-12-2015 03:27 AM by Heatheness.)
RE: The argument from desire
(23-12-2015 02:58 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(21-12-2015 08:24 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  Because they're trying to debunk the atheist stance that we are born atheist and would not have gods except for indoctrination.
Never heard of that stance and myself am proof that isn't the case, is only a singular case.

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23-12-2015, 03:08 AM
RE: The argument from desire
(23-12-2015 03:04 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(22-12-2015 01:30 AM)Ace Wrote:  so god again admits he doesn't want people to know he exists, doesn't want them to know what and how he does thing nor anything else for that matter

how many instances in the bible does god say this ?
It's more like a matter of time, or a sequence of events that will take place prior to the second coming. God will be known at some point, as will our direction in thanksgiving and love.

that is incredibly vague
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23-12-2015, 03:20 AM
RE: The argument from desire
(23-12-2015 02:58 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(21-12-2015 08:24 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  Because they're trying to debunk the atheist stance that we are born atheist and would not have gods except for indoctrination.
Never heard of that stance and myself am proof that isn't the case, is only a singular case.

That's the basis of the not uncommon position of Presuppositional apologist arguments.

But the base of the concept for some using it is proclaiming everyone KNOWS God & God is the status of default that you have, others just turn away from it in life. Yet most all of this is built off faulty assumptions and logical fallacies that aren't anything proven true. It's not certain what they want to indicate about causality.

(23-12-2015 03:02 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  In reality there is but One Creator GOD. This truth is being realized more daily.

hmm, what is it you think is being realized more daily? By who exactly?

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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