The argument from evil proves that the world is horrible?
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17-05-2014, 07:44 PM
RE: The argument from evil proves that the world is horrible?
(17-05-2014 07:41 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(17-05-2014 07:35 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  That's not quote mining, because that is what it says, and (unlike some people) I at least provided my source.

You paraphrased what? Two verses??? Huh

Two verses out of some 30,000. Shocking

You then imply that the two verses are somehow representative of God's nature while completely ignoring the thousands of other verses that would put the verses into context....

RolleyesFacepalmOhmy

Never call someone intellectually dishonest without looking in the mirror first.

So then, you're saying these verses are an "exception" of some sort, and not actually the "Word of God" ? If THESE are not, what is your standard for picking and choosing ? Cafeteria Babble time, or what ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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17-05-2014, 07:48 PM
RE: The argument from evil proves that the world is horrible?
(17-05-2014 07:44 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(17-05-2014 07:41 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  You paraphrased what? Two verses??? Huh

Two verses out of some 30,000. Shocking

You then imply that the two verses are somehow representative of God's nature while completely ignoring the thousands of other verses that would put the verses into context....

RolleyesFacepalmOhmy

Never call someone intellectually dishonest without looking in the mirror first.

So then, you're saying these verses are an "exception" of some sort, and not actually the "Word of God" ? If THESE are not, what is your standard for picking and choosing ? Cafeteria Babble time, or what ?

You know what quote-mining is.....

I hope...


UnsureSadcryface


if not....grab one of your books that you got from your "real school" and look it up.
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17-05-2014, 07:51 PM
The argument from evil proves that the world is horrible?
(17-05-2014 07:28 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(17-05-2014 07:22 PM)Leo Wrote:  God ordered the rape and killing of rival tribes in the bible.

He ordered women to be raped?

Where is this found at?

As far as killing, yes, He did. But this is not murder. It is killing.

Two different thinks young grasshopper! Drinking Beverage

Quote:Isaiah 13:16

Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.

Zechariah 14:2

For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/biblic...e_of_women

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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17-05-2014, 08:06 PM
RE: The argument from evil proves that the world is horrible?
(17-05-2014 06:18 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(17-05-2014 06:04 PM)Chas Wrote:  The Bible says it is one of God's creations.

No it does not.

In Isaiah 45:7 the scriptures state:

ז יוֹצֵר אוֹר וּבוֹרֵא חֹשֶׁךְ, עֹשֶׂה שָׁלוֹם וּבוֹרֵא רָע; אֲנִי יְהוָה, עֹשֶׂה כָל-אֵלֶּה. {פ}

First of all, the Hebrew word for evil, "rah," is used in many different ways in the Bible. In the KJV Bible it occurs 663 times. 431 times it is translated as "evil." The other 232 times it is translated as "wicked," "bad," "hurt," "harm," "ill," "sorrow," "mischief," "displeased," "adversity," "affliction," "trouble," "calamity," "grievous," "misery," and "trouble." So we can see that the word does not require that it be translated as "evil." This is why different Bibles translate this verse differently. It is translated as "calamity" by the NASB and NKJV; "disaster" by the NIV; and "woe" by the RSV.

Second, the context of the verse is speaking of natural phenomena.

"I am the Lord, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God. I will gird you, though you have not known Me; 6That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun That there is no one besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other, 7The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the Lord who does all these," (Isaiah 45:5-7).

Notice that the context of the verse is dealing with who God is, that it is God who speaks of natural phenomena (sun, light, dark), and it is God who is able to cause "well-being" as well as "calamity." Contextually, this verse is dealing with natural disasters and human comfort issues. It is not speaking of moral evil; rather, it is dealing with calamity, distress, etc. This is consistent with other scriptures. For example,

"And the Lord said to him, "Who has made man’s mouth? Or who makes him dumb or deaf, or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the Lord?" (Exodus 4:11).
"Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?" (Amos 3:6).
Also, take note that Isaiah is presenting contrasts. He speaks of "light" and "darkness," "well being" and "calamity." The word "well-being" in the Hebrew is the word for 'peace,' "Shalome." So, in the context, we are seeing two sets of opposites: Light and dark, peace and non-peace, or well being and calamity. The "evil" that is spoken of is not ontological evil, but the evil experienced by people in the form of calamity.

From the above two verses (Exodus 4:11; Amos 3:6) we can see that the Lord is involved in calamity and problems in the earthly realm. Exodus 4:11 is speaking of human frailty and Amos 3:6 is speaking of woes in a city. It is not a moral evil that God brings, but calamity and distress upon people.





This was not for you Chas, so feel free not to respond. Thanks.

OK, so where did evil come from?

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17-05-2014, 08:08 PM
RE: The argument from evil proves that the world is horrible?
Welcome to TTA, Pete. Meet your fellow Theist. ^^ Dodgy

(assuming you're theist)

A person very dear to me was badly hurt through a misunderstanding and miscommunication. For this, I am sorry, and he knows it. That said, any blaming me for malicious intent is for the birds. I will not wear some scarlet letter, I will not be anybody's whipping girl, and I will not lurk in silence.
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17-05-2014, 08:10 PM
RE: The argument from evil proves that the world is horrible?
(17-05-2014 07:41 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(17-05-2014 07:35 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  That's not quote mining, because that is what it says, and (unlike some people) I at least provided my source.

You paraphrased what? Two verses??? Huh

Two verses out of some 30,000. Shocking

You then imply that the two verses are somehow representative of God's nature while completely ignoring the thousands of other verses that would put the two verses into context....

RolleyesFacepalmOhmy

Never call someone intellectually dishonest without looking in the mirror first.

On the start, I admitted that it was not gawd ordering the rape (obviously you did not see the proviso from less than a minute after posting). However, it is still god's solution to the issue, which reflects on it's 'nature': Let a woman be raped by a man, force him to pay for damages and then force them to stay together until death do they part.
This is an absurd solution, which is why I used it.

Additionally, don't you think it is a tad ironic for you to say that I cannot imply something about the nature of a character from a book based on two verses out of 30,000 in the whole work, while at the same time implying that I am intellectually dishonest based on a single post out of 6,456?

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"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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18-05-2014, 02:43 AM
RE: The argument from evil proves that the world is horrible?

One still has the responsibility of choosing to obey God. CHOOSING is the responsibility of free moral agents.
[/quote]

What the fuck is this "god"-shit you are babbling about?

I don't "obey" figments of your paltry idiot excuse for an imagination.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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18-05-2014, 02:46 AM
RE: The argument from evil proves that the world is horrible?
(17-05-2014 07:11 PM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  It makes me sad that this has become one of many threads with people arguing with one person that essentially sucks up all the attention in this forum.

Yeah, let's talk about what asinine, attention-seeking assholes vegan apologist fucktards are instead.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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18-05-2014, 02:48 AM
RE: The argument from evil proves that the world is horrible?
(17-05-2014 07:13 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(17-05-2014 07:11 PM)Leo Wrote:  Where is the evidence that god is compassionate and generous ? Laugh out load

You. He sustains your life while you yet deny Him. If this is not generous, I know not what is. Drinking Beverage

That's fucking stupid. If your idiot mythical fairy tale monster "sustained our lives", then we wouldn't have to struggle to survive. Your bullshit platitudes are nauseatingly inane.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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18-05-2014, 02:51 AM
RE: The argument from evil proves that the world is horrible?
(17-05-2014 07:15 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(17-05-2014 07:13 PM)Leo Wrote:  So rape and murder is okay?

To me?

No. Rape and murder are wrong by definition.

Then your fucking fairy tale monster gawd is wrong by definition, asshole.


But we all know that you advocate rape, pedophilia, and murder already. Fuck you.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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