The argument from evil proves that the world is horrible?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
18-05-2014, 06:14 AM (This post was last modified: 18-05-2014 06:24 AM by Jeremy E Walker.)
RE: The argument from evil proves that the world is horrible?
(17-05-2014 08:10 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(17-05-2014 07:41 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  You paraphrased what? Two verses??? Huh

Two verses out of some 30,000. Shocking

You then imply that the two verses are somehow representative of God's nature while completely ignoring the thousands of other verses that would put the two verses into context....

RolleyesFacepalmOhmy

Never call someone intellectually dishonest without looking in the mirror first.

On the start, I admitted that it was not gawd ordering the rape (obviously you did not see the proviso from less than a minute after posting). However, it is still god's solution to the issue, which reflects on it's 'nature': Let a woman be raped by a man, force him to pay for damages and then force them to stay together until death do they part.
This is an absurd solution, which is why I used it.

Additionally, don't you think it is a tad ironic for you to say that I cannot imply something about the nature of a character from a book based on two verses out of 30,000 in the whole work, while at the same time implying that I am intellectually dishonest based on a single post out of 6,456?

You have been guilty of quote-mining more than once. It seems to be a habit of many here.

Not only that but you still have yet to understand what the passage means. You keep talking about force, the text does not even support this notion. The word "chazak'" which is used to connote the act of violently forcing a woman to have sex IS NOT USED. The verb used is one that connotes "to lay hold upon" to "touch".

The whole meaning of the passage is that God requires a man to be willing to marry a woman and treat her as his wife if he decides to have sex with her. There is nothing in the passage to indicate this is non-consensual. When read rightly, this is right in line with what we would expect from God for in numerous other places sexual immorality (fornication) is condemned, not condoned.

The skeptic's annotated bible is simply not something that is going to help you study the bible. I hate to break it to you.

If you or anyone here uses it i suggest you refrain. it would be like me using a creationist's annotated The Origin of Species.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
18-05-2014, 06:20 AM
RE: The argument from evil proves that the world is horrible?
(18-05-2014 02:51 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(17-05-2014 07:15 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  To me?

No. Rape and murder are wrong by definition.

Then your fucking fairy tale monster gawd is wrong by definition, asshole.


But we all know that you advocate rape, pedophilia, and murder already. Fuck you.

Taq, I know some here may get a kick out of seeing you say the same juvenile lines and obscene quips over and over here. No doubt you are amusing to many here which in itself speaks to the caliber of people in this forum.

I ignore you for the most part and just wanted you to know that if you are trying to exasperate me into leaving this forum, your labor is in vain.

Now...you can commence to your regularly scheduled routine of typing much but saying little.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
18-05-2014, 07:56 AM
RE: The argument from evil proves that the world is horrible?
(18-05-2014 06:14 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  You have been guilty of quote-mining more than once. It seems to be a habit of many here.

[Image: you-keep-using-that-word1.jpg]

Your definition of quote mining is such that any quotation no matter the length taken unaltered is quote mining. It is beyond stupid. But then you have proven yourself to be rather on the low end of the bell curve.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Revenant77x's post
18-05-2014, 08:28 AM
RE: The argument from evil proves that the world is horrible?
(18-05-2014 07:56 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Your definition of quote mining is such that any quotation no matter the length taken unaltered is quote mining. It is beyond stupid. But then you have proven yourself to be rather on the low end of the bell curve.

The practice of quoting out of context, sometimes referred to as "contextomy", is a logical fallacy and a type of false attribution in which a passage is removed from its surrounding matter in such a way as to distort its intended meaning. - Wikipedia

This is how I use the term. Drinking Beverage
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
18-05-2014, 08:36 AM
RE: The argument from evil proves that the world is horrible?
That's right. It's the context that excuses god from commands to murder, rape, and commit genocide. The context is that God is perfect, and those things are wrong. Ergo, he didn't do those things that are recorded in his word. I mean, of course he did them. But they weren't murder, rape, and genocide. They just fit our meagre human definitions of such things. Clearly if God commanded them they just... weren't those things.

God works in mysterious ways. We cannot seek to know the mind of God. Conflict resolved. Any attempt to claim that God commanded murder, rape, and genocide are simply quote-mined. They strip away the all-important "god is perfect" context.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Hafnof's post
18-05-2014, 08:37 AM
RE: The argument from evil proves that the world is horrible?
(18-05-2014 08:36 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  That's right. It's the context that excuses god from commands to murder, rape, and commit genocide. The context is that God is perfect, and those things are wrong. Ergo, he didn't do those things that are recorded in his word. I mean, of course he did them. But they weren't murder, rape, and genocide. They just fit our meagre human definitions of such things. Clearly if God commanded them they just... weren't those things.

God works in mysterious ways. We cannot seek to know the mind of God. Conflict resolved.

Yes he hides behind this even when asked to put them into context. He can't of course and will then immediately ignore any further requests. Fail Troll is fail.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Revenant77x's post
18-05-2014, 08:46 AM
RE: The argument from evil proves that the world is horrible?
(16-05-2014 02:58 PM)WimpyPete Wrote:  Hi guys,

I was just curious about your thoughts on this. I know the argument from the problem of evil is often used in a negative sense against theists to try to demonstrate that God does not exist (thus as a 'negative' proof), but what exactly does the argument demonstrate in a positive sense? It seems like the conclusion of the argument that evil exists and therefore God does not exist, really ends up meaning positively that the world is tragic and in a sense horrible because there is just all this suffering and death and eternal separation from loved ones etc without any purpose or ultimate resolution. I guess I bring up the question because usually it seems like unbelievers are sort of excited about the argument of evil, but it seems like its conclusion is sort of a sad one in my opinion. Just curious about your thoughts.

I am atheist, and I don't believe evil exists, so I cannot use evil as an argument against the existence of God.

I see evil as supernatural; if I believed in evil then for me, God would follow. I don't believe in the supernatural.

And so you know, the world isn't tragic; the human condition is tragic, and sometimes we get lucky (lucky as in random chance).

I always thought the argument of evil was a Christian argument.

WELCOME Wink

"If you want a happy ending, that depends, of course, on where you stop your story." Orson Welles
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
18-05-2014, 10:19 AM (This post was last modified: 18-05-2014 11:18 AM by Leo.)
RE: The argument from evil proves that the world is horrible?
Hey Jeremy respond to this if you can . The epicurus quote: If god is willing to prevent evil but not able, Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able but not willing ? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing ? Then whence cometh evil. Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him god?
I will not explain the qoute to you but I'm waiting for you hilarious response.Thumbsup
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
18-05-2014, 11:30 AM
RE: The argument from evil proves that the world is horrible?
(18-05-2014 10:19 AM)Leo Wrote:  Hey Jeremy respond to this if you can . The epicurus quote: If god is willing to prevent evil but not able, Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able but not willing ? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing ? Then whence cometh evil. Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him god?
I will not explain the qoute to you but I'm waiting for you hilarious response.Thumbsup

God's plans for humanity entail Him permitting evil for a limited duration. Once this duration terminates, evil will be ultimately dealt with.

Epicurus' objection was dealt with centuries ago. It is by no means something new.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
18-05-2014, 11:35 AM
RE: The argument from evil proves that the world is horrible?
(18-05-2014 08:36 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  That's right. It's the context that excuses god from commands to murder, rape, and commit genocide. The context is that God is perfect, and those things are wrong. Ergo, he didn't do those things that are recorded in his word. I mean, of course he did them. But they weren't murder, rape, and genocide. They just fit our meagre human definitions of such things. Clearly if God commanded them they just... weren't those things.

God works in mysterious ways. We cannot seek to know the mind of God. Conflict resolved. Any attempt to claim that God commanded murder, rape, and genocide are simply quote-mined. They strip away the all-important "god is perfect" context.

It is the context that dictates how we interpret the passages in question. The immdiate context, and the context in toto.

Now, if a theist takes a work of an atheist and lifts a sentence here and there out of context to support a view that is not supported by the body of the work in toto, then you would take issue with this.

Hence, a double-standard. Drinking Beverage
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: