The argument from evil proves that the world is horrible?
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18-05-2014, 12:50 PM
RE: The argument from evil proves that the world is horrible?
(18-05-2014 12:45 PM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  The rape apology post, where you argued taking virgins against their will after killing their families, and forcing them to marry the men who murdered their families for sexual purposes?

Or are you just waffling again, and about to slide back to your position that when the text of the bible doesn't agree with the philosophical concept of God, those passages are "simply irrelevant"?

I never wrote the post you are referencing.

I wrote an exposition of Deut. 21:10-14
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18-05-2014, 01:09 PM
RE: The argument from evil proves that the world is horrible?
(17-05-2014 09:38 AM)WimpyPete Wrote:  
(17-05-2014 01:35 AM)Charis Wrote:  Our emotional reaction to what is or what isn't usually has very little, if any, influence on what is or isn't.

But our psychological reactions to spiders do not change one thing: Spiders exist. Our gut reactions do not change the facts...

But spiders exist, and that's just fact. Me not liking it does not change it. It just is, and that's just life.

Same with a god or a lack thereof.

Do not commit the folly of declaring reality to be what we want it to be.
I agree with you that reality is what it is despite our feelings towards it, and I'm not trying to say that our feelings/desires determine reality.
....
My point then is not that our beliefs make something true or exist etc. but what I'm more asking is why we aren't more open to considering other possible solutions or possibilities which might give a better, more hopeful account of reality.

I know I'm a bit late to address this to the OP, but if you are still around, I think part of this effect is the relative comparison of atheism to religion. I don't think atheism by itself is as awful and doom and gloom as people initially react to it. Life, existence, and the universe, regardless, is wondrous and miraculous, and we have the ability to see it, understand it, and experience it for a time. Is vacation utterly depressing because eventually you have to go home? Would you never marry because your spouse may die? Do you never go to concerts because they end after a couple hours? No, of course not. We understand that even temporary experiences have value.

However, instead of seeing and treasuring the amazing fortune of even a temporary life, many often find despair and hopelessness. I suspect much of this is dissatisfaction with what we have because it isn't "keeping up with the Joneses" of religion. Getting $10,000 cash for your birthday is, by itself, awesome. Getting $10,000 when your brother gets $1,000,000 is a depressing and disappointing. All that changed was the comparison though. How can we be satisfied with what we have if the comparison we judge it against is an impossible promise of eternity in perfect paradise? Anything would be depressing in comparison to THAT promise. But if that promise isn't real, all it does is poison our appreciation for the reality that we do have, which by itself is still pretty damn amazing.

Jesus is my Stalker: He has graced me with his unconditional love, but if I reject it and refuse to love him in return, he will make my life Hell.
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18-05-2014, 01:33 PM
RE: The argument from evil proves that the world is horrible?
(18-05-2014 01:09 PM)djhall Wrote:  
(17-05-2014 09:38 AM)WimpyPete Wrote:  I agree with you that reality is what it is despite our feelings towards it, and I'm not trying to say that our feelings/desires determine reality.
....
My point then is not that our beliefs make something true or exist etc. but what I'm more asking is why we aren't more open to considering other possible solutions or possibilities which might give a better, more hopeful account of reality.

I know I'm a bit late to address this to the OP, but if you are still around, I think part of this effect is the relative comparison of atheism to religion. I don't think atheism by itself is as awful and doom and gloom as people initially react to it. Life, existence, and the universe, regardless, is wondrous and miraculous, and we have the ability to see it, understand it, and experience it for a time. Is vacation utterly depressing because eventually you have to go home? Would you never marry because your spouse may die? Do you never go to concerts because they end after a couple hours? No, of course not. We understand that even temporary experiences have value.

However, instead of seeing and treasuring the amazing fortune of even a temporary life, many often find despair and hopelessness. I suspect much of this is dissatisfaction with what we have because it isn't "keeping up with the Joneses" of religion. Getting $10,000 cash for your birthday is, by itself, awesome. Getting $10,000 when your brother gets $1,000,000 is a depressing and disappointing. All that changed was the comparison though. How can we be satisfied with what we have if the comparison we judge it against is an impossible promise of eternity in perfect paradise? Anything would be depressing in comparison to THAT promise. But if that promise isn't real, all it does is poison our appreciation for the reality that we do have, which by itself is still pretty damn amazing.

People that will not worship God now would never worship Him for all eternity in Paradise.

For such a person, this paradise you speak of would be hell. They would not be able to engage in the sins they love so much here.

In this life, people make the choice of where they will spend eternity. The time is now to choose. Tomorrow is not promised.

Some would rather "reign with satan in hell than serve Christ in Heaven".

The irony is that no one in hell is reigning over anything.
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18-05-2014, 01:42 PM
RE: The argument from evil proves that the world is horrible?
(18-05-2014 01:33 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(18-05-2014 01:09 PM)djhall Wrote:  I know I'm a bit late to address this to the OP, but if you are still around, I think part of this effect is the relative comparison of atheism to religion. I don't think atheism by itself is as awful and doom and gloom as people initially react to it. Life, existence, and the universe, regardless, is wondrous and miraculous, and we have the ability to see it, understand it, and experience it for a time. Is vacation utterly depressing because eventually you have to go home? Would you never marry because your spouse may die? Do you never go to concerts because they end after a couple hours? No, of course not. We understand that even temporary experiences have value.

However, instead of seeing and treasuring the amazing fortune of even a temporary life, many often find despair and hopelessness. I suspect much of this is dissatisfaction with what we have because it isn't "keeping up with the Joneses" of religion. Getting $10,000 cash for your birthday is, by itself, awesome. Getting $10,000 when your brother gets $1,000,000 is a depressing and disappointing. All that changed was the comparison though. How can we be satisfied with what we have if the comparison we judge it against is an impossible promise of eternity in perfect paradise? Anything would be depressing in comparison to THAT promise. But if that promise isn't real, all it does is poison our appreciation for the reality that we do have, which by itself is still pretty damn amazing.

People that will not worship God now would never worship Him for all eternity in Paradise.

For such a person, this paradise you speak of would be hell. They would not be able to engage in the sins they love so much here.

In this life, people make the choice of where they will spend eternity. The time is now to choose. Tomorrow is not promised.

Some would rather "reign with satan in hell than serve Christ in Heaven".

The irony is that no one in hell is reigning over anything.
The irony is that in heaven no one is reigning over anything. Thumbsup
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18-05-2014, 01:50 PM
The argument from evil proves that the world is horrible?
(18-05-2014 01:33 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(18-05-2014 01:09 PM)djhall Wrote:  I know I'm a bit late to address this to the OP, but if you are still around, I think part of this effect is the relative comparison of atheism to religion. I don't think atheism by itself is as awful and doom and gloom as people initially react to it. Life, existence, and the universe, regardless, is wondrous and miraculous, and we have the ability to see it, understand it, and experience it for a time. Is vacation utterly depressing because eventually you have to go home? Would you never marry because your spouse may die? Do you never go to concerts because they end after a couple hours? No, of course not. We understand that even temporary experiences have value.

However, instead of seeing and treasuring the amazing fortune of even a temporary life, many often find despair and hopelessness. I suspect much of this is dissatisfaction with what we have because it isn't "keeping up with the Joneses" of religion. Getting $10,000 cash for your birthday is, by itself, awesome. Getting $10,000 when your brother gets $1,000,000 is a depressing and disappointing. All that changed was the comparison though. How can we be satisfied with what we have if the comparison we judge it against is an impossible promise of eternity in perfect paradise? Anything would be depressing in comparison to THAT promise. But if that promise isn't real, all it does is poison our appreciation for the reality that we do have, which by itself is still pretty damn amazing.

People that will not worship God now would never worship Him for all eternity in Paradise.

For such a person, this paradise you speak of would be hell. They would not be able to engage in the sins they love so much here.

In this life, people make the choice of where they will spend eternity. The time is now to choose. Tomorrow is not promised.

Some would rather "reign with satan in hell than serve Christ in Heaven".

The irony is that no one in hell is reigning over anything.

What sins? You're already a huge fan of lying, the father of lies would love to have you as a companion.

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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18-05-2014, 02:13 PM
RE: The argument from evil proves that the world is horrible?
(18-05-2014 01:42 PM)Leo Wrote:  
(18-05-2014 01:33 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  People that will not worship God now would never worship Him for all eternity in Paradise.

For such a person, this paradise you speak of would be hell. They would not be able to engage in the sins they love so much here.

In this life, people make the choice of where they will spend eternity. The time is now to choose. Tomorrow is not promised.

Some would rather "reign with satan in hell than serve Christ in Heaven".

The irony is that no one in hell is reigning over anything.
The irony is that in heaven no one is reigning over anything. Thumbsup

That is incorrect...

2 Timothy 2:12 states:

If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;...

Revelation 20:6 reiterates this:

Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.

The redeemed saints will reign with Christ in His kingdom of righteousness because they have been found worthy of the task.
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18-05-2014, 02:17 PM
The argument from evil proves that the world is horrible?
[Image: tumblr_lwyffyw2Ns1qej7pq.gif]

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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18-05-2014, 03:21 PM
RE: The argument from evil proves that the world is horrible?
(18-05-2014 02:13 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(18-05-2014 01:42 PM)Leo Wrote:  The irony is that in heaven no one is reigning over anything. Thumbsup

That is incorrect...

2 Timothy 2:12 states:

If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;...

Revelation 20:6 reiterates this:

Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.

The redeemed saints will reign with Christ in His kingdom of righteousness because they have been found worthy of the task.

That would be Quote mining by your definition.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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18-05-2014, 03:42 PM
RE: The argument from evil proves that the world is horrible?
(18-05-2014 02:13 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(18-05-2014 01:42 PM)Leo Wrote:  The irony is that in heaven no one is reigning over anything. Thumbsup
Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.

That's it? A measly 1000 years? Pfft.
A thousand years in an eternity...someone's getting screwed.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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18-05-2014, 04:20 PM
RE: The argument from evil proves that the world is horrible?
(18-05-2014 03:21 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(18-05-2014 02:13 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  That is incorrect...

2 Timothy 2:12 states:

If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;...

Revelation 20:6 reiterates this:

Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.

The redeemed saints will reign with Christ in His kingdom of righteousness because they have been found worthy of the task.

That would be Quote mining by your definition.

The context, both immediate and in toto supports the summation I gave and thus renders your charge groundless.

You fail as do the rest of the godless that have nothing better to do than demonstrate how ignorant they are when it comes to subjects they haven't the slightest command of.
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