The attributes of God....
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30-10-2016, 12:00 AM
The attributes of God....
When theists say that God is omnipotent and omniscient and omnibenevolent...and yet us humans also have-free will...don't those 3 attributes of God cancel each other out and make God either a evil and sick monster or non-existent??? Hence-the theodicy of tje problem of evil and suffering.....but some theists counteract that argument with the issue of-original sin.....
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30-10-2016, 12:14 AM
RE: The attributes of God....
Yes, the problem of evil does demonstrate that defining God as an anthropomorphic, omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent being is inconsistent and ilogical. Theodicy is the attempt to reconcialiate this fact with the belief in such a being. Such a being possess ultimate power and ultimate responsability. Thus, if there is evil, he cannot exist. In the classical formulation of the Epicurus dilemma, numerous escape hatch are givin for a deity to exist, but to be consistent with reality, it requires the said deity to lose some of those attributes. There are a lot of other problems with this definition of God, but the problem of evil is probably the most accessible one since it hinges on a basic moral argument instead of more complex metaphysical concept.

Freedom is servitude to justice and intellectual honesty.
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30-10-2016, 12:44 AM
RE: The attributes of God....
(30-10-2016 12:00 AM)jason197754 Wrote:  When theists say that God is omnipotent and omniscient and omnibenevolent...and yet us humans also have-free will...don't those 3 attributes of God cancel each other out and make God either a evil and sick monster or non-existent??? Hence-the theodicy of tje problem of evil and suffering.....but some theists counteract that argument with the issue of-original sin.....

All it means is that god is in your poop. He travelled your colon then dived headfirst into toilet water.

If ever you meet this god, don't shake its hand. Eeeewwwww. Huh

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30-10-2016, 02:14 AM
RE: The attributes of God....
Ever notice how closely "theodicy" resembles "the idiocy?" Consider

living word
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30-10-2016, 05:58 AM
RE: The attributes of God....
(30-10-2016 02:14 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Ever notice how closely "theodicy" resembles "the idiocy?" Consider

It is almost an anagram of 'the idiocy'.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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30-10-2016, 06:52 AM
RE: The attributes of God....
They need to have evil and suffering and original sin--or there would be no need for Jesus Wink If they don't accept those things, Christianity crumbles into dust.

As for God being all three O's, the Bible doesn't support those things anyway. If you were doing a literary analysis of the Bible, you would find instances in their own book that refutes that.

For example:

Omniscient-Not in Genesis when he couldn't find Adam, one of only two people in the garden.

Omniscient and Omnipotent--not in Judges when he couldn't figure out how to defeat people with chariots of iron.

Omnibenevolent-not in most instances in the Bible thanks to his killings, disease, rapes, and famine. A quick reading of Deuteronomy and God's Curses of Disobedience section paint him as a complete and utter monster. All horrific things he will do to people who do not do what he says.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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30-10-2016, 06:54 AM
RE: The attributes of God....
(30-10-2016 12:00 AM)jason197754 Wrote:  When theists say that God is omnipotent and omniscient and omnibenevolent...and yet us humans also have-free will...don't those 3 attributes of God cancel each other out and make God either a evil and sick monster or non-existent??? Hence-the theodicy of tje problem of evil and suffering.....but some theists counteract that argument with the issue of-original sin.....

Would I be correct in assuming that you're specifically referring to Christian theists?
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30-10-2016, 07:31 AM
RE: The attributes of God....
(30-10-2016 12:00 AM)jason197754 Wrote:  When theists say that God is omnipotent and omniscient and omnibenevolent...and yet us humans also have-free will...don't those 3 attributes of God cancel each other out and make God either a evil and sick monster or non-existent??? Hence-the theodicy of tje problem of evil and suffering.....but some theists counteract that argument with the issue of-original sin.....

Omni-anything is impossible, it's a tacit admission that such a god concept is impossible.

For instance if you're omnipresent and omniscient, then you are participating in every conceivable sin that humans commit, you literally become an integral part of all sin as well as infinitely knowledgeable about sins that we have and haven't even conceived of yet.

It's a level of involvement that mere mortals are incapable of, being an individual that lacks omnipresence and omniscience makes you automatically limited to your exposure and potential to sin by default. So every person that ever lived is far less sinful than such a god.

Omnis are an untenable concept that falls apart under scrutiny, imaginary things have imaginary traits.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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30-10-2016, 08:51 AM
RE: The attributes of God....
(30-10-2016 12:00 AM)jason197754 Wrote:  When theists say that God is omnipotent and omniscient and omnibenevolent...and yet us humans also have-free will...don't those 3 attributes of God cancel each other out and make God either a evil and sick monster or non-existent??? Hence-the theodicy of tje problem of evil and suffering.....but some theists counteract that argument with the issue of-original sin.....

For me, omniscience vs. merciful/loving is the biggest problem. Omniscience is all knowing, all seeing. This deity pre-knows all human decisions, all paths, all sin, all future inhabitants of hell. He knows all this even before he creates the first atom. Yet he goes and makes humans anyway knowing for certain that millions will, by their own free will, end up in hell . How is this merciful or in any way loving?

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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30-10-2016, 09:02 AM
RE: The attributes of God....
(30-10-2016 12:00 AM)jason197754 Wrote:  When theists say that God is omnipotent and omniscient and omnibenevolent... and yet us humans also have-free will... don't those 3 attributes of God cancel each other out...?

There's no need to overthink this hypothetical Jason. All you need to know is that God and/or gods don't exist, and never have. And don't be concerned with what theists say to you, as they're invariably deluded in their beliefs about matters mythical and supernatural.

Anyway...

Omnipotent? And lets a 3-year-old child die from leukemia?
Omniscient? But doesn't understand germ theory?
Omnibenevolent? And condoned the Levite massacre?

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Dodgy

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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