The big bang
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18-12-2013, 02:15 PM
RE: The big bang
(18-12-2013 01:40 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(18-12-2013 12:31 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  1) What you're talking about is not the conventional model of cosmological inflation. As far as I can tell it's something you've cooked up on your own or read on some creationist site.

Why would a creationist espouse eternal inflation? That would be silly. Anyways the type of inflation I am describing is mainstream cosmology....at least for the last 20 years or more it has been. Here is a link that might help you get up to date.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_inflation

If you'd read the link that you just posted you'd know that that theory results in a fractal multiverse lying outside of the observable universe. It's outside our light cone so it can never be observed and will never affect us. Nifty but pointless.
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18-12-2013, 02:52 PM
RE: The big bang
(18-12-2013 11:58 AM)DeavonReye Wrote:  
(18-12-2013 10:56 AM)Crulax Wrote:  You experience this "phenomena" everyday! Tongue (Unless you're some extradimensional being.) You're not are you?Unsure

Well, . . . . . . . I don't THINK I am. Undecided

But for sake of argument, how do I experience it? I'm talking about high gravity slowing down time to a stop.

You live on Earth and Earth's mass warps space/time but no not enough to bring time to a halt. That would take a black hole.

Onward, my faithful steed!
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18-12-2013, 04:14 PM
RE: The big bang
(18-12-2013 02:52 PM)Crulax Wrote:  
(18-12-2013 11:58 AM)DeavonReye Wrote:  Well, . . . . . . . I don't THINK I am. Undecided

But for sake of argument, how do I experience it? I'm talking about high gravity slowing down time to a stop.

You live on Earth and Earth's mass warps space/time but no not enough to bring time to a halt. That would take a black hole.

And I wouldn't want to experience that myself. No

When I die and come back as a ghost, . . . I'm going to the first black hole I see and will . . . . . . . . . . . . . wait, would a black hole affect a ghost too? Confused
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18-12-2013, 10:13 PM
RE: The big bang
(18-12-2013 04:17 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(17-12-2013 08:43 PM)Jeffasaurus Wrote:  Regarding the issue of no time prior to the big bang, it concerns gravity. As gravity increases it slows down time. In fact, our satellites in geosynchronous orbits have to be recalibrated regularly to compensate for the lower gravity off planet. Within the massive density of a black hole, time slows down to a mere crawl. Compress the entire universe into a single point as it was prior to the Big Bang, and the gravity will be so intense that there would be no passage of time whatsoever.

That is why you frequently hear that nothing happened prior to the Big Bang. It's simply based on our concept of what time is.

When asked if God created the universe Stephen Hawking replied, "no, because he didn't have time."

Gravity is the result of a curvature in space time. Compress the universe into a point and their is no space-time to be curved....there is no gravity to slow time down to a standstill.

Further, the proposed force carrier of gravity is the graviton boson...which cannot exist when the universe is a point. Bosons need space to exist.
Since I'm not an astrophysicist, I'm not quite sure how to respond. My understanding comes from what Hawking said a few years ago. Perhaps the field has advanced to change what he had said. Or perhaps you're just a poopy head. Big Grin
I do, however, know that Hawking is a genius.

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19-12-2013, 01:38 AM
RE: The big bang
(18-12-2013 10:13 PM)Jeffasaurus Wrote:  Since I'm not an astrophysicist, I'm not quite sure how to respond. My understanding comes from what Hawking said a few years ago. Perhaps the field has advanced to change what he had said. Or perhaps you're just a poopy head. Big Grin
I do, however, know that Hawking is a genius.
Well, I would take everything Heywood says with a grain of salt because he has no higher education in any of the natural sciences. Consider

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19-12-2013, 01:48 AM
RE: The big bang
(18-12-2013 10:13 PM)Jeffasaurus Wrote:  Since I'm not an astrophysicist, I'm not quite sure how to respond. My understanding comes from what Hawking said a few years ago. Perhaps the field has advanced to change what he had said. Or perhaps you're just a poopy head. Big Grin
I do, however, know that Hawking is a genius.

You should believe Hawking over me....I could be some internet crackpot for all you know.
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19-12-2013, 01:52 AM
RE: The big bang
(18-12-2013 02:15 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  
(18-12-2013 01:40 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Why would a creationist espouse eternal inflation? That would be silly. Anyways the type of inflation I am describing is mainstream cosmology....at least for the last 20 years or more it has been. Here is a link that might help you get up to date.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_inflation

If you'd read the link that you just posted you'd know that that theory results in a fractal multiverse lying outside of the observable universe. It's outside our light cone so it can never be observed and will never affect us. Nifty but pointless.

It has a point....but you're not following along so you don't get it. Re-read this thread starting with RaisedCath's post about being at a dinner party. He was asking how he could respond to a particular argument, and I gave him a response(I tried to dumb it down to dinner party level so it isn't quite accurate). Eternal inflation models do not need an impetus.
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19-12-2013, 03:38 AM
RE: The big bang
(16-12-2013 11:03 AM)DeavonReye Wrote:  I hear this a lot, . . . but it doesn't seem to make sense. How can there be "no time" . . . at ANY time in history? It may work mathematically, but can it actually work in reality? An event [expanse, Big Bang] will occupy time. Before that event, time was still moving even if nothing was happening. Just my thoughts on the topic from a non-physicist mind.

That's a common misconception, and an understandable one. It's quite inconceivable to imagine something "before time", when you define time, in Newtonian terms, as the unfolding of sequential events. If it is before the Big Bang, it implies change, therefore sequences of events, and therefore, passage of time.

But since Einstein we do know that time is a dimension, an expanse we occupy, analogous to space. Before the Big Bang, there was no such expanse of time, like there was no expanse of space. There was nothing we could occupy.

If it sounds somewhat esoteric (I'm off to work, can't properly explain now), I suggest the video "what is time", from Brian Greene. You can easily find it at YouTube,

Regards Smile.
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19-12-2013, 07:30 AM
RE: The big bang
Has anyone listened to the latest TTA podcast with Lawrence Krauss yet? Didn't he write a whole book on this topic?…. I'm hoping Seth asked him this, but I haven't listened yet. And if he did, I hope its in simple enough terms for me to 'get it'.


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19-12-2013, 10:13 AM
RE: The big bang
fredlc, thanks for the suggestion. I will look for that video. :-)

Bows and Arrows, . . . yes he DID ask Mr Krauss that question, and I listened to the podcast [youtube] yesterday. He made some interesting points about it, but even he admits that we cannot really know . . . and may never know.
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