The big picture
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26-05-2011, 07:32 PM (This post was last modified: 26-05-2011 07:57 PM by Buddy Christ.)
The big picture
This isn't too deep or thought provoking, but I feel the need to remind Theists just what their world construct entails.

All of this is because of God

And before you go "yes, praise Jesus for the butterflies and rainbows and..."

Stop.



I meant that God created everything, while knowing everything. That means that He made existence, then made Hell, then made different random acts and thoughts called Sins, then He made you (a being susceptible to temptation), and then He threw you onto this planet with a loosely worded, easily misunderstood, generic book of what constitutes these Sins... and left, leaving you to figure it out yourself.

And if you happen to be born in a part of the world that doesn't teach these Sins or you never hear about this Bible or you try to do what is right, but fail due to the terribly written Holy Texts, then you burn in Hell (the greatest pain imaginable) for eternity.


Do you understand this? It's like if I made a being out of mud and magically brought it life and said "now go run that incredibly confusing gauntlet of obstacles that I have prepared for you" and then walked away to go buy a pack of gum. Then when I come back and find that my newly formed mudman has inevitably failed to navigate my gauntlet of horrors, I throw him into a lake of fire (which I also created) forever. And then I go "don't blame me, I gave you a chance for bliss. You chose to stumble instead. If anything, you should be praising me for giving you the chance."


God is a malicious prick and deserves to be burned alive for creating such cruel creatures and then punishing them for behaving how they were designed. Like a watchmaker who curses the watches for their terrible quality, rather than realizing that the fault lies with the designer.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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27-05-2011, 03:15 AM
RE: The big picture
It gets worse than that when you consider the religion in more detail...

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo

"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do." - Voltaire
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27-05-2011, 10:26 AM
RE: The big picture
<creationist idiot mode>

But he loves you! just accept him into your hart! It truly is the best feeling ever. When you accept him into your hart, it will all make sense...

</creationist idiot mode>


Good post, I wonder what the other fundie answers will sounds like.

"Infinitus est numerus stultorum." (The number of fools is infinite)
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27-05-2011, 10:48 AM
RE: The big picture
(26-05-2011 07:32 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  I meant that God created everything, while knowing everything. That means that He made existence, then made Hell, then made different random acts and thoughts called Sins, then He made you (a being susceptible to temptation), and then He threw you onto this planet with a loosely worded, easily misunderstood, generic book of what constitutes these Sins... and left, leaving you to figure it out yourself.
He created beings who were perfect but who had the free will and could choose whether or not to obey him. All the evils in the world came about because some chose to disobey. He didn't leave, but is still present in the world and willing to help anyone who wants to obey him.

Quote:And if you happen to be born in a part of the world that doesn't teach these Sins or you never hear about this Bible or you try to do what is right, but fail due to the terribly written Holy Texts, then you burn in Hell (the greatest pain imaginable) for eternity.
The Bible is God's highest revelation of himself but not his only one. He has revealed his existence through what he has created and he has given everyone an innate knowledge of right and wrong. The problem is that most people have failed to live up to what they know of God and as a result have lost this knowledge. But whenever anyone does obey what he knows to be true God will give him more knowledge.

The story of the Wise Men in the Bible is an example of this. They knew that a king of the Jews had been born but because they didn't have the scriptures they didn't know where the birth would take place. But the acted on the knowledge they did possess and traveled to Jerusalem. There they learned from those who knew the scriptures the exact place of his birth.

Another example of this is found in the 10th chapter of Acts. Cornelius knew there was a God and was trying to serve him. God sent an angel to him to tell him where he could learn more about God and find out the way of salvation.

God has promised that everyone who seeks him with his whole heart will find him.

Quote:God is a malicious prick and deserves to be burned alive for creating such cruel creatures and then punishing them for behaving how they were designed. Like a watchmaker who curses the watches for their terrible quality, rather than realizing that the fault lies with the designer.
A watch is an inanimate object and has ho control over its own functions. We have the power of choice and our choices determine whether or not we live as God intended us to.

Scientists use information as a proof of evolution because the evidence overwhelmingly supports this position. The information in ancient libraries came from real minds of real people. The far more complex information in cells came from the far more intelligent mind of God.
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27-05-2011, 01:56 PM (This post was last modified: 27-05-2011 02:01 PM by Buddy Christ.)
RE: The big picture
(27-05-2011 10:48 AM)theophilus Wrote:  He created beings who were perfect but who had the free will and could choose whether or not to obey him. All the evils in the world came about because some chose to disobey.

Well then we obviously weren't "perfect" were we? He designed 2 humans, and 50% of them did the opposite of what he designed them for. As a manufacturing company, God's product has a 1 out of 2 chance of being flawed. Sounds like He's gonna have a lawsuit on his hands.


Quote:The Bible is God's highest revelation of himself but not his only one. He has revealed his existence through what he has created and he has given everyone an innate knowledge of right and wrong.

Really? So you were born with the innate knowledge that you shouldn't wear mixed fibers, cut the corners of your beard, work on the 7th day of the week, or touch a menstruating woman, and that you should kill homosexuals, unruly children, and atheists?


Quote:Another example of this is found in the 10th chapter of Acts. Cornelius knew there was a God and was trying to serve him. God sent an angel to him to tell him where he could learn more about God and find out the way of salvation.

This all makes the plot line of the novel much more interesting, but it doesn't apply to real life. When was the last time an angel appeared to mankind without taking the form of a grilled cheese sandwich?


Quote:A watch is an inanimate object and has ho control over its own functions. We have the power of choice and our choices determine whether or not we live as God intended us to.

Alright, I'll change the analogy. Let's say you see a 12 year old in the supermarket who's being a bastard and throwing food at other shoppers and running around being a dick to everyone. What is the first thing you think?

"What kind of terrible parents does this kid have to let him do this?"

Or in the least, "Where are this kid's parents?"

It's up to the parent, the teacher of morals, to make sure the children grow up correctly. God is either a malicious, homicidal maniac himself (and from the Old Testament we can confirm that yes, He is) or He is completely neglecting us to go have a beer and watch the Knicks game.



Edit: and Kudos for being the longest lasting theist on this forum. I know that we can be a bit harsh at times and you never seem to resort to those derogatory methods that use the terms "typical atheists" or "you're all going to burn!"

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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27-05-2011, 02:08 PM
 
RE: The big picture
(27-05-2011 10:26 AM)Thammuz Wrote:  <creationist idiot mode>

But he loves you! just accept him into your hart! It truly is the best feeling ever. When you accept him into your hart, it will all make sense...

</creationist idiot mode>


Good post, I wonder what the other fundie answers will sounds like.
most go on about
" he gave you free will because he wanted you to be happy!"

and i'm like >.>
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27-05-2011, 02:34 PM
RE: The big picture
(27-05-2011 10:48 AM)theophilus Wrote:  A watch is an inanimate object and has ho control over its own functions. We have the power of choice and our choices determine whether or not we live as God intended us to.

In any case we would have no more choice than he had given us. We have no more say in the matter than the watch has.
Also, you have a strange idea of what a choice is. If your options are obedience or torture, it can hardly be called a choice. And it gets worse! If you have the backbone to refuse to obey, you are not only condemning yourself to torture, but also your children by proxy, since this means that you will not instruct them to obey this raving lunatic.

The idea only gets worse with the arrival of Christ. By inserting the perverted idea of vicarious redemption into the picture, your choice gets even more restrained. You now have to choose between everlasting torture, or accepting responsibility for the torture and murder off an innocent man. A crime which, legend has it, was committed two thousand years before you where born!

The idea that we are created so horribly sick and commanded to be well suggests to me that this god of yours must be playing some sick divine version of "The Sims", with the difficulty sett to "hard", just for the hell of it.

Free will might or might not be an illusion, but in the world view of monotheism it is an impossibility! You have only an illusion of free will, since being omniscient, God already knows every minute detail of what you are going to do with your life long before you are born.

Can omniscient god
Find the omnipotence
To change his future mind


I can't remember who wrote that, but its worth pondering.

I want to rip off your superstitions and make passionate sense to you
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27-05-2011, 03:15 PM
 
Tongue Carlin IS god! :P


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27-05-2011, 04:42 PM
 
RE: The big picture
To Buddy: You have given 666 likes. I just find this amusing, if meaningless. Have you left it there on purpose?
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27-05-2011, 05:05 PM
RE: The big picture
(27-05-2011 04:42 PM)Cube Wrote:  To Buddy: You have given 666 likes. I just find this amusing, if meaningless. Have you left it there on purpose?

Twas a gift given by the site code designer (also known as the code "creator").

So you see, the Creator blessed me with a beastly mark... or the "mark of the beast."

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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