The big picture
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28-05-2011, 10:34 AM
RE: The big picture
(27-05-2011 01:56 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  
Quote:The Bible is God's highest revelation of himself but not his only one. He has revealed his existence through what he has created and he has given everyone an innate knowledge of right and wrong.

Really? So you were born with the innate knowledge that you shouldn't wear mixed fibers, cut the corners of your beard, work on the 7th day of the week, or touch a menstruating woman, and that you should kill homosexuals, unruly children, and atheists?
There are two kinds of commands given by God. There are universal moral laws that apply to everybody and there are specific commands that were only intended for specific individuals and groups. The examples you have given are of the second kind. They were laws given specifically to Israel. But the universal laws, such as those against stealing or murder, are known everywhere. Here is a more detailed explanation of the difference between the two kinds of commands:

http://www.christiandoctrinediscussion.c...ament.html

Quote:It's up to the parent, the teacher of morals, to make sure the children grow up correctly. God is either a malicious, homicidal maniac himself (and from the Old Testament we can confirm that yes, He is) or He is completely neglecting us to go have a beer and watch the Knicks game.
There are some children who continue to do wrong in spite of anything their parents do, and it appears that most humans are like this with regard to God.


Quote:Edit: and Kudos for being the longest lasting theist on this forum. I know that we can be a bit harsh at times and you never seem to resort to those derogatory methods that use the terms "typical atheists" or "you're all going to burn!"
Thank you


(27-05-2011 02:34 PM)Norseman Wrote:  [quote='theophilus' pid='32632' dateline='1306514904']Also, you have a strange idea of what a choice is. If your options are obedience or torture, it can hardly be called a choice.
Why not? Any time there are two options open to us we must choose betweem them and many of our choices are of this kind. We have the option of obeying the law or going to jail. We have the option of doing what our employer asks us to do or being fired. If we are suffering from a fatal disease we have the option of following our doctor's instructions or dying. Our choice of whether or not to obey God is just like many of the other choices we face in life.

Scientists use information as a proof of evolution because the evidence overwhelmingly supports this position. The information in ancient libraries came from real minds of real people. The far more complex information in cells came from the far more intelligent mind of God.
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28-05-2011, 10:48 AM
RE: The big picture
(28-05-2011 10:34 AM)theophilus Wrote:  Why not? Any time there are two options open to us we must choose betweem them and many of our choices are of this kind. We have the option of obeying the law or going to jail. We have the option of doing what our employer asks us to do or being fired. If we are suffering from a fatal disease we have the option of following our doctor's instructions or dying. Our choice of whether or not to obey God is just like many of the other choices we face in life.

There are differences here that you are ignoring.
Living in a democracy you also have the opportunity to work towards having laws changed if they are not to your fancy.
In professional life you have the opportunity to seek alternative employment if you employer is not to your fancy.
When it comes to fatal diseases you are right, we don't have a choice. It's do or die. Just as it is with Yahweh.

I'd like to see you try to answer my entire post please.

I want to rip off your superstitions and make passionate sense to you
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28-05-2011, 10:52 AM
RE: The big picture
(27-05-2011 10:48 AM)theophilus Wrote:  He created beings who were perfect but who had the free will and could choose whether or not to obey him. All the evils in the world came about because some chose to disobey.

You mean aside from the evil demons that God himself set on people, or the times when he stepped in and made people act in a certain way just to get the job (usually more killing) done?

(27-05-2011 10:48 AM)theophilus Wrote:  The Bible is God's highest revelation of himself but not his only one. He has revealed his existence through what he has created and he has given everyone an innate knowledge of right and wrong.

Strangely, this is a knowledge that he himself seems to lack.

Why won't God heal amputees?
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24-09-2015, 03:05 PM
RE: The big picture
BUDDY CHRIST:
This isn't too deep or thought provoking, but I feel the need to remind Theists just what their world construct entails.
All of this is because of God
And before you go "yes, praise Jesus for the butterflies and rainbows and..."
Stop.
I meant that God created everything, while knowing everything.

ALLA:
False,
God never said that He created everything while He knows everything.

BUDDY CHRIST:
That means that He made existence,

ALLA:
existence? what that suppose to mean?

BUDDY CHRIST:
then made Hell,

ALLA:
what is hell? do you even know?

BUDDY CHRIST:
then made different random acts and thoughts called Sins,

ALLA: God can not create acts. Acts do not exist in nature. "Acts" is the word or symbol created by men to describe something.

BUDDY CHRIST:
then He made you (a being susceptible to temptation),

ALLA:
He made me meaning He made my spirit, but not my physical body. Nature (not without my parents) made it.

BUDDY CHRIST:
and then He threw you onto this planet with a loosely worded, easily misunderstood, generic book of what constitutes these Sins... and left, leaving you to figure it out yourself.

ALLA:
not true. He gave me my parents who helped me to figure out many things. He also gave me light of Christ( of course you have no idea what it means) and He gave me gift of the Holy Ghost.

BUDDY CHRIST:
And if you happen to be born in a part of the world that doesn't teach these Sins or you never hear about this Bible or you try to do what is right, but fail due to the terribly written Holy Texts, then you burn in Hell (the greatest pain imaginable) for eternity.

ALLA:
False, God never said this. Some preachers teach this false doctrine. Devil teaches this false doctrine.


Do you understand this? It's like if I made a being out of mud and magically brought it life and said "now go run that incredibly confusing gauntlet of obstacles that I have prepared for you" and then walked away to go buy a pack of gum. Then when I come back and find that my newly formed mudman has inevitably failed to navigate my gauntlet of horrors, I throw him into a lake of fire (which I also created) forever. And then I go "don't blame me, I gave you a chance for bliss. You chose to stumble instead. If anything, you should be praising me for giving you the chance."


God is a malicious prick and deserves to be burned alive for creating such cruel creatures and then punishing them for behaving how they were designed. Like a watchmaker who curses the watches for their terrible quality, rather than realizing that the fault lies with the designer.
[/quote]

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
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24-09-2015, 03:11 PM
RE: The big picture
RE: The big picture
BUDDY CHRIST:
This isn't too deep or thought provoking, but I feel the need to remind Theists just what their world construct entails.
All of this is because of God
And before you go "yes, praise Jesus for the butterflies and rainbows and..."
Stop.
I meant that God created everything, while knowing everything.

ALLA:
False,
God never said that He created everything while He knows everything.

BUDDY CHRIST:
That means that He made existence,

ALLA:
existence? what that suppose to mean?

BUDDY CHRIST:
then made Hell,

ALLA:
what is hell? do you even know?

BUDDY CHRIST:
then made different random acts and thoughts called Sins,

ALLA: God can not create acts. Acts do not exist in nature. "Acts" is the word or symbol created by men to describe something.

BUDDY CHRIST:
then He made you (a being susceptible to temptation),

ALLA:
He made me meaning He made my spirit, but not my physical body. Nature (not without my parents) made it.

BUDDY CHRIST:
and then He threw you onto this planet with a loosely worded, easily misunderstood, generic book of what constitutes these Sins... and left, leaving you to figure it out yourself.

ALLA:
not true. He gave me my parents who helped me to figure out many things. He also gave me light of Christ( of course you have no idea what it means) and He gave me gift of the Holy Ghost.

BUDDY CHRIST:
And if you happen to be born in a part of the world that doesn't teach these Sins or you never hear about this Bible or you try to do what is right, but fail due to the terribly written Holy Texts, then you burn in Hell (the greatest pain imaginable) for eternity.

ALLA:
False, God never said this. Some preachers teach this false doctrine. Devil teaches this false doctrine.

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
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24-09-2015, 04:10 PM
RE: The big picture
(24-09-2015 03:11 PM)Alla Wrote:  RE: The big picture
BUDDY CHRIST:
This isn't too deep or thought provoking, but I feel the need to remind Theists just what their world construct entails.
All of this is because of God
And before you go "yes, praise Jesus for the butterflies and rainbows and..."
Stop.
I meant that God created everything, while knowing everything.

ALLA:
False,
God never said that He created everything while He knows everything.

BUDDY CHRIST:
That means that He made existence,

ALLA:
existence? what that suppose to mean?

BUDDY CHRIST:
then made Hell,

ALLA:
what is hell? do you even know?

BUDDY CHRIST:
then made different random acts and thoughts called Sins,

ALLA: God can not create acts. Acts do not exist in nature. "Acts" is the word or symbol created by men to describe something.

BUDDY CHRIST:
then He made you (a being susceptible to temptation),

ALLA:
He made me meaning He made my spirit, but not my physical body. Nature (not without my parents) made it.

BUDDY CHRIST:
and then He threw you onto this planet with a loosely worded, easily misunderstood, generic book of what constitutes these Sins... and left, leaving you to figure it out yourself.

ALLA:
not true. He gave me my parents who helped me to figure out many things. He also gave me light of Christ( of course you have no idea what it means) and He gave me gift of the Holy Ghost.

BUDDY CHRIST:
And if you happen to be born in a part of the world that doesn't teach these Sins or you never hear about this Bible or you try to do what is right, but fail due to the terribly written Holy Texts, then you burn in Hell (the greatest pain imaginable) for eternity.

ALLA:
False, God never said this. Some preachers teach this false doctrine. Devil teaches this false doctrine.

Epic necro post resurrection...4 years old *applause*

Since I systematically eviscerated your entire faith system, what gives you the platform of expertise to pontificate about anything related to theology? Consider

You just made a fuck ton of knowledge claims...asserting what "god" did or didn't do....I do love the inner twistings of your child-like world-view....it IS entertaining.

[Image: 2klmzd.png]

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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24-09-2015, 05:24 PM
RE: The big picture
(24-09-2015 04:10 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  I do love the inner twistings of your child-like world-view....it IS entertaining.
Smile I am glad I could entertain you.

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
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24-09-2015, 06:25 PM
RE: The big picture
(24-09-2015 05:24 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(24-09-2015 04:10 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  I do love the inner twistings of your child-like world-view....it IS entertaining.
Smile I am glad I could entertain you.

You do, you truly do Smile

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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