The christian church and false hope
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18-05-2015, 11:38 AM (This post was last modified: 18-05-2015 12:48 PM by Tonechaser77.)
The christian church and false hope
So as some of you who have seen my posts know, I am an nonbeliever who still attends church with my family. My reasons are tenuous at best, but i'll set that aside for now...

This weekend I was scheduled to play on one of the worship teams at our church and as I sat in and listened to the message I jotted down a few notes along with issues that I'd like to share. As my journey continues I am slowly seeing how religion, despite some claims that it does "good" in our material world, really truly IS hurting the overall effort to further humanity.

We kicked off a new series about bringing hope where it's hard to find. Our church partners with several other areas to send missionaries and / or food, clothes, etc to Chad Africa. That nation was chosen because it has some of the worst conditions in the world allegedly. In the message the pastor relayed how food is being sent, hospitals are being built and christian doctors are being put into place. He mentioned as an example that women who give birth are giving their babies dirty water. The doctors are informing them that if they breast feed instead it will give their babies better nutrients etc that will be healthier than the contaminated water they are drinking. This information then gets passed around to other villages etc. With this information the doctors are presenting villagers with the story of god / Jesus, how they (the people) are fallen, broken, hurt and going to hell. They need god. This is where my issue comes in.....

These pastors are claiming that medicine and science along with god are joining hands to push a third world country forward. These villagers see that medicine works and they see that hospitals and knowledge can help. But they are presented all this info from people proclaiming a god and therefore equate their problem being solved, to said god.

This is the seed of contamination that religion is offering. Equating knowledge, science and logic to a god....and to people who don't know any better. It's the sad old tale of christianity finding someone at their low / weak point and providing a solution. It is false and until it is eradicated we may continue to see religion grow in third world countries. My only hope is that technology will continue to bring this lie to the forefront.
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18-05-2015, 11:53 AM
RE: The christian church and false hope
Can't sell the snake oil without a good marketing campaign. The youth leader at my son's baptist church told us parents that they would give out eyeglasses during mission trips to Belize, and would put their best evangelical at the front of the line, just before they receive the glasses. Sneaky tactics to scam the very people in need, for which they intend to help.

I also had to attend the service this past Sunday since it was senior day to send off the seniors, like my son, to college. The pastor had to (of course) go on about how education and knowledge are useless without faith in jesus. What a lying worm.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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18-05-2015, 11:56 AM (This post was last modified: 19-05-2015 02:00 AM by microterf.)
RE: The christian church and false hope
Well put. I really hope you're right. I myself have grown more and more disgusted with religion as I see exactly how it works.

Remember, just because you want something to be true, doesn't make it true. Yes, even if you have faith.
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18-05-2015, 12:05 PM
RE: The christian church and false hope
It isn't just Christianity. The concept of grouping and calling it a religion throughout our species history is our species gap filling ignorance. I don't even give Hindus or Buddhists or Jainism a pass. The idea of old clubs constituting our modern understanding of scientific reality is nothing more than our species refusal to give up on bad claims. It is old kaleidoscope thinking in an age of telescopes. It made sense back then when people created these groups and didn't know any better. NO label owns a patent on our species behavior. Our species ability to be cruel or compassionate is in our evolution, not our labels. Not even the word "atheist" should be treated like a moral code or loyalty oath.

No religion was around 200,000 years ago, much less 4 billion hears ago. And in 10 billion years time way after our planet is dead and sun dies, there will be no record of our species existence nor the clubs we invent, It isn't that you can force religion out of existence, but as a species we should not be afraid of giving up on old claims. We live fine without believing in Apollo or Isis, and I am sure we can move on without praying to Vishnu or fat statues or Allah or magic babies.

Poetry by Brian37(poems by an atheist) Also on Facebook as BrianJames Rational Poet and Twitter Brianrrs37
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18-05-2015, 12:06 PM
RE: The christian church and false hope
My real question is, would your church be willing to sponsor a medical mission in which the doctor, instead of talking about God, would spend that time talking about, I dunno, nutrition, or sanitation, or seeing other patients?

In other words, would they sponsor a medical effort which for the same price was more medicine but no preaching? You know, charity that you don't get credit for?
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18-05-2015, 12:16 PM
RE: The christian church and false hope
(18-05-2015 12:05 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  It isn't just Christianity. The concept of grouping and calling it a religion throughout our species history is our species gap filling ignorance. I don't even give Hindus or Buddhists or Jainism a pass. The idea of old clubs constituting our modern understanding of scientific reality is nothing more than our species refusal to give up on bad claims. It is old kaleidoscope thinking in an age of telescopes. It made sense back then when people created these groups and didn't know any better. NO label owns a patent on our species behavior. Our species ability to be cruel or compassionate is in our evolution, not our labels. Not even the word "atheist" should be treated like a moral code or loyalty oath.

No religion was around 200,000 years ago, much less 4 billion hears ago. And in 10 billion years time way after our planet is dead and sun dies, there will be no record of our species existence nor the clubs we invent, It isn't that you can force religion out of existence, but as a species we should not be afraid of giving up on old claims. We live fine without believing in Apollo or Isis, and I am sure we can move on without praying to Vishnu or fat statues or Allah or magic babies.

Yes, good point... I know my title was centrally focused on a typical christian church but my polemic is by no means esoteric to that particular religion.
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18-05-2015, 12:18 PM
RE: The christian church and false hope
(18-05-2015 12:06 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  My real question is, would your church be willing to sponsor a medical mission in which the doctor, instead of talking about God, would spend that time talking about, I dunno, nutrition, or sanitation, or seeing other patients?

In other words, would they sponsor a medical effort which for the same price was more medicine but no preaching? You know, charity that you don't get credit for?

I agree, but i look at it as they want to help you in this life, and the following eternal life. Some medicine for your present illness, and some jesus as a cure for much later.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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18-05-2015, 12:20 PM
RE: The christian church and false hope
(18-05-2015 12:06 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  My real question is, would your church be willing to sponsor a medical mission in which the doctor, instead of talking about God, would spend that time talking about, I dunno, nutrition, or sanitation, or seeing other patients?

In other words, would they sponsor a medical effort which for the same price was more medicine but no preaching? You know, charity that you don't get credit for?

I highly doubt it. Mainly because they have skin in the game in that country also. People from the church have given up their entire lives to move there and be missionaries.

Plus, they would see a medical mission as not getting the biggest bang for their buck. Or, in their eyes, what's the point if the true end game isn't conversion?
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