The coming Russian Theocracy
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31-10-2013, 05:58 PM
The coming Russian Theocracy
(31-10-2013 05:45 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(31-10-2013 04:47 PM)I and I Wrote:  Why would anyone need to declare to anyone their sexual orientation? Has anyone here on this forum felt the need to do so? Is telling total strangers that you like a cock up your ass necessary? I know that society teaches us that this is a " right". But nobody here can explain why they feel it should be a right. The standard conservative and liberal people make a big deal out of this but this is a distraction.

THE ESTABLISHMENT WOULD MUCH RATHER HAVE ONES SEXUAL ORIENTATION BE AN ISSUE, RATHER THAN THAT PERSONS POLITICAL VIEWS. One does not and cannot disturb the establishments power by stating that one likes cock, however if this person starting showing the complete and total failure of modern capitalism......well he is a just a loony for saying things like that. Gay and straight people should have the right politically challenge the establishment, if they can't do that and are reduced to talking about benign mundane sexual tastes then that accomplishes nothing.

What about gay and straight peoples wages losing buying power while wages are not going up?

It's called freedom of speech.

So if someone can't publish their sexual tastes how exactly is that lack of freedom of speech?

Do you consider privacy as being self censorship?
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01-11-2013, 06:02 AM
RE: The coming Russian Theocracy
(31-10-2013 05:58 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(31-10-2013 05:45 PM)Chas Wrote:  It's called freedom of speech.

So if someone can't publish their sexual tastes how exactly is that lack of freedom of speech?

Do you consider privacy as being self censorship?


"someone can't publish their sexual tastes"

Isn't blocking speech, well, blocking speech?

And I&I, you betray you antipathy towards homosexuals when you boil the issue down to sex acts and descriptions of those sex acts. The law in Russia is not just a law against sexual language or the topic of sex. If I were a journalist who wrote an opinion essay that homosexual couples should be allowed to adopt unwanted children, that would be a violation of the law. The Russian law is not some prudish 'don't talk about sex law'. It bans 'propoganda'.

I'm not sure whether it's just that you think gay people should be second class citizens in Russia or if it is just your sycophantic, blind support of Russia that is causing you to take the position you are taking here. I suspect it is some of both--HIV deniers often hate homosexuals, so as an HIV denier I&I, it would not surprise me if it's just that you hate homosexuals.
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01-11-2013, 06:21 AM
RE: The coming Russian Theocracy
(01-11-2013 06:02 AM)BryanS Wrote:  
(31-10-2013 05:58 PM)I and I Wrote:  So if someone can't publish their sexual tastes how exactly is that lack of freedom of speech?

Do you consider privacy as being self censorship?


"someone can't publish their sexual tastes"

Isn't blocking speech, well, blocking speech?

And I&I, you betray you antipathy towards homosexuals when you boil the issue down to sex acts and descriptions of those sex acts. The law in Russia is not just a law against sexual language or the topic of sex. If I were a journalist who wrote an opinion essay that homosexual couples should be allowed to adopt unwanted children, that would be a violation of the law. The Russian law is not some prudish 'don't talk about sex law'. It bans 'propoganda'.

I'm not sure whether it's just that you think gay people should be second class citizens in Russia or if it is just your sycophantic, blind support of Russia that is causing you to take the position you are taking here. I suspect it is some of both--HIV deniers often hate homosexuals, so as an HIV denier I&I, it would not surprise me if it's just that you hate homosexuals.

It doesn't ban people from talking about adoption, it bans gay people sharing their public sexual tastes.

Have you ever shared your sexual tastes on this website? If no, are you self censoring?
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01-11-2013, 06:30 AM
RE: The coming Russian Theocracy
(01-11-2013 06:21 AM)I and I Wrote:  
(01-11-2013 06:02 AM)BryanS Wrote:  "someone can't publish their sexual tastes"

Isn't blocking speech, well, blocking speech?

And I&I, you betray you antipathy towards homosexuals when you boil the issue down to sex acts and descriptions of those sex acts. The law in Russia is not just a law against sexual language or the topic of sex. If I were a journalist who wrote an opinion essay that homosexual couples should be allowed to adopt unwanted children, that would be a violation of the law. The Russian law is not some prudish 'don't talk about sex law'. It bans 'propoganda'.

I'm not sure whether it's just that you think gay people should be second class citizens in Russia or if it is just your sycophantic, blind support of Russia that is causing you to take the position you are taking here. I suspect it is some of both--HIV deniers often hate homosexuals, so as an HIV denier I&I, it would not surprise me if it's just that you hate homosexuals.

It doesn't ban people from talking about adoption, it bans gay people sharing their public sexual tastes.

Have you ever shared your sexual tastes on this website? If no, are you self censoring?

The Russian law does ban any subject where the object is homosexuality. The law bans propaganda, or anything that promotes or advocates a homosexual lifestyle. So writing in favor of adoption in the case the parent(s) are homosexual would be advocacy of homosexuality. Writing about favoring allowing homosexuals to marry would be advocacy, and illegal. Demonstrations and rallies are especially called out as illegal, so if you hold a protest against laws that ban homosexuals from marriage, adoption, or equal protection of the law, you would be breaking this Russian law.
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01-11-2013, 08:03 AM
The coming Russian Theocracy
So what are your opinions on countries that hold such laws or even ban gay marriage or like Russia jail gay activists? Are you against countries like this?
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01-11-2013, 08:22 AM
RE: The coming Russian Theocracy
(01-11-2013 08:03 AM)I and I Wrote:  So what are your opinions on countries that hold such laws or even ban gay marriage or like Russia jail gay activists? Are you against countries like this?

I'm not 'against countries' for single reasons or issues. I would find policies that jail people just for being gay to be egregiously and objectionable. Likewise I would object to any law that fines and/or jails its citizens simply for speaking out on the issue.

Gay marriage is a more recent issue, and because it is an issue that is at the forefront of advocacy for gay rights, it would be an overreaction to say a country is worthy of dislike only for not allowing gay marriage. But again, its opposition to a policy I have, not necessarily a country. As minds are changed and the moral zeitgeist comes around to be in favor of gay marriage, those countries that hold out become less excusable.

One of my concerns with Russia's government is the topic of this thread, the ever increasing role of the church in governance in Russia. Russia's government has more wrong with it than just its cozy relationship with the Russian Orthodox Church, but other threads can deal with those topics.
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01-11-2013, 08:29 AM
The coming Russian Theocracy
(01-11-2013 08:22 AM)BryanS Wrote:  
(01-11-2013 08:03 AM)I and I Wrote:  So what are your opinions on countries that hold such laws or even ban gay marriage or like Russia jail gay activists? Are you against countries like this?

I'm not 'against countries' for single reasons or issues. I would find policies that jail people just for being gay to be egregiously and objectionable. Likewise I would object to any law that fines and/or jails its citizens simply for speaking out on the issue.

Gay marriage is a more recent issue, and because it is an issue that is at the forefront of advocacy for gay rights, it would be an overreaction to say a country is worthy of dislike only for not allowing gay marriage. But again, its opposition to a policy I have, not necessarily a country. As minds are changed and the moral zeitgeist comes around to be in favor of gay marriage, those countries that hold out become less excusable.

One of my concerns with Russia's government is the topic of this thread, the ever increasing role of the church in governance in Russia. Russia's government has more wrong with it than just its cozy relationship with the Russian Orthodox Church, but other threads can deal with those topics.

Are you concerned about all those things in any country? In 2013 all countries in the Middle East have laws just like Russia's law and much worse, notice ALL countries in the Middle East I said. In 2013, how would you excuse any country for having such laws? Do you believe a "moral zeitgeist" has come around in the Middle East and that there holding out is deplorable?

Is this conversation getting too close for comfort?
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01-11-2013, 08:34 AM
RE: The coming Russian Theocracy
(01-11-2013 08:29 AM)I and I Wrote:  
(01-11-2013 08:22 AM)BryanS Wrote:  I'm not 'against countries' for single reasons or issues. I would find policies that jail people just for being gay to be egregiously and objectionable. Likewise I would object to any law that fines and/or jails its citizens simply for speaking out on the issue.

Gay marriage is a more recent issue, and because it is an issue that is at the forefront of advocacy for gay rights, it would be an overreaction to say a country is worthy of dislike only for not allowing gay marriage. But again, its opposition to a policy I have, not necessarily a country. As minds are changed and the moral zeitgeist comes around to be in favor of gay marriage, those countries that hold out become less excusable.

One of my concerns with Russia's government is the topic of this thread, the ever increasing role of the church in governance in Russia. Russia's government has more wrong with it than just its cozy relationship with the Russian Orthodox Church, but other threads can deal with those topics.

Are you concerned about all those things in any country? In 2013 all countries in the Middle East have laws just like Russia's law and much worse, notice ALL countries in the Middle East I said. In 2013, how would you excuse any country for having such laws? Do you believe a "moral zeitgeist" has come around in the Middle East and that there holding out is deplorable?

Is this conversation getting too close for comfort?


The Middle East--and yes, that means 'all countries' in that area--is particularly bad on the issue. Yes, those laws concern me. But as if often the case with your posts, I&I, you are trying to make this topic about anything but the topic of the thread. It happens to be about Russia (I hint at this in the topic of the thread that I posted).
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01-11-2013, 12:55 PM
The coming Russian Theocracy
(01-11-2013 08:34 AM)BryanS Wrote:  
(01-11-2013 08:29 AM)I and I Wrote:  Are you concerned about all those things in any country? In 2013 all countries in the Middle East have laws just like Russia's law and much worse, notice ALL countries in the Middle East I said. In 2013, how would you excuse any country for having such laws? Do you believe a "moral zeitgeist" has come around in the Middle East and that there holding out is deplorable?

Is this conversation getting too close for comfort?


The Middle East--and yes, that means 'all countries' in that area--is particularly bad on the issue. Yes, those laws concern me. But as if often the case with your posts, I&I, you are trying to make this topic about anything but the topic of the thread. It happens to be about Russia (I hint at this in the topic of the thread that I posted).

When one criticizes one nation for its policies yet doesn't criticize other countries for similar or worse policies then that person is not interested in debating the issue, that person is only interested in smearing certain countries.

Btw, interracial marriage is allowed in practically all countries in 2013, except for a certain nation in the Middle East..... In 2013 that is more shocking and deplorable that a nation today still does not allow interracial marriage, THE ONLY NATION TODAY. At least Russia's laws aren't as backward as that nations...
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01-11-2013, 01:18 PM
RE: The coming Russian Theocracy
(01-11-2013 12:55 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(01-11-2013 08:34 AM)BryanS Wrote:  The Middle East--and yes, that means 'all countries' in that area--is particularly bad on the issue. Yes, those laws concern me. But as if often the case with your posts, I&I, you are trying to make this topic about anything but the topic of the thread. It happens to be about Russia (I hint at this in the topic of the thread that I posted).

When one criticizes one nation for its policies yet doesn't criticize other countries for similar or worse policies then that person is not interested in debating the issue, that person is only interested in smearing certain countries.

Btw, interracial marriage is allowed in practically all countries in 2013, except for a certain nation in the Middle East..... In 2013 that is more shocking and deplorable that a nation today still does not allow interracial marriage, THE ONLY NATION TODAY. At least Russia's laws aren't as backward as that nations...

In Egypt the government reviews all marriages between Egyptian men and Israeli women to decide on an individual basis whether to strip the men of their Egyptian citizenship. The cabinet takes into consideration whether the Israeli woman is an Arab or a Jew. Egyptian law says citizenship can only be revoked if the citizen is proven to be spying on his country, and marrying an Israeli is considered an act of spying.

Saudi women are prohibited from marrying men from outside the GCC countries except with a special dispensation from the King. Saudi men are permitted to marry whomever they choose

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