The coming Russian Theocracy
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01-11-2013, 05:47 PM
RE: The coming Russian Theocracy
(01-11-2013 02:57 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(01-11-2013 01:18 PM)Chas Wrote:  In Egypt the government reviews all marriages between Egyptian men and Israeli women to decide on an individual basis whether to strip the men of their Egyptian citizenship. The cabinet takes into consideration whether the Israeli woman is an Arab or a Jew. Egyptian law says citizenship can only be revoked if the citizen is proven to be spying on his country, and marrying an Israeli is considered an act of spying.

Saudi women are prohibited from marrying men from outside the GCC countries except with a special dispensation from the King. Saudi men are permitted to marry whomever they choose

In Egypt, inter religious marriage is allowed by and recognized by the government. There is only one government in the Middle East and the world that doesn't recognize interracial marriage and it's not Egypt. Anymore wild guesses as to which nation this is?

(01-11-2013 05:39 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(01-11-2013 05:23 PM)I and I Wrote:  A local authority in Israel has announced that it is establishing a special team of youth counsellors and psychologists whose job it will be to identify young Jewish women who are dating Arab men and “rescue” them.

The move by the municipality of Petah Tikva, a city close to Tel Aviv, is the latest in a series of separate — and little discussed — initiatives from official bodies, rabbis, private organizations and groups of Israeli residents to try to prevent interracial dating and marriage.

In a related development, the Israeli media reported this month that residents of Pisgat Zeev, a large Jewish settlement in the midst of Palestinian neighborhoods in East Jerusalem, had formed a vigilante-style patrol to stop Arab men from mixing with local Jewish girls.

Hostility to intimate relationships developing across Israel’s ethnic divide is shared by many Israeli Jews, who regard such behavior as a threat to the state’s Jewishness. One of the few polls on the subject, in 2007, found that more than half of Israeli Jews believed intermarriage should be equated with “national treason.”

Since the state’s founding in 1948, analysts have noted, a series of legal and administrative measures have been taken by Israel to limit the possibilities of close links developing between Jewish and Arab citizens, the latter comprising a fifth of the population.

Largely segregated communities and separate education systems mean that there are few opportunities for young Arabs and Jews to become familiarized with each other. Even in the handful of “mixed cities,” Arab residents are usually confined to separate neighborhoods.

In addition, civil marriage is banned in Israel, meaning that in the small number of cases where Jews and Arabs want to wed, they can do so only by leaving the country for a ceremony abroad. The marriage is recognized on the couple’s return.

Yuval Yonay, a sociologist at Haifa University, said the number of interracial marriages was “too small to be studied.” “Separation between Jews and Arabs is so ingrained in Israeli society, it is surprising that anyone manages to escape these central controls.”

The team in Petah Tikva, a Jewish city of 200,000 residents, was created in direct response to news that two Jewish girls, aged 17 and 19, were accompanying a group of young Arab men when they allegedly beat a Jewish man, Leonard Karp, to death last month on a Tel Aviv beach. The older girl was from Petah Tikva.

The girls’ involvement with the Arab youths has revived general concern that a once-firm taboo against interracial dating is beginning to erode among some young people.

In sentiments widely shared, Hezi Hakak, a spokesman for Petah Tikva municipality, said “Russian girls” — young Jewish women whose parents arrived in Israel over the past two decades, since the collapse of the former Soviet Union — were particularly vulnerable to the attention of Arab men.

Dr. Yonay said Russian women were less closed to the idea of relationships with Arab men because they “did not undergo the religious and Zionist education” to which more established Israeli Jews were subject.

Hakak said the municipality had created a hotline that parents and friends of the Jewish women could use to inform on them.

“We can’t tell the girls what to do but we can send a psychologist to their home to offer them and their parents advice,” he said.

Motti Zaft, the deputy mayor, told the Ynet website that the municipality was also cracking down on city homeowners who illegally subdivide apartments to rent them cheaply to single Arab men looking for work in the Tel Aviv area. He estimated that several hundred Arab men had moved into the city as a result.

Petah Tikva’s hostility to Arab men mixing with local Jewish women is shared by other communities.

In Pisgat Zeev, a settlement of 40,000 Jews, some 35 Jewish men are reported to belong to a patrol known as “Fire for Judaism” that tries to stop interracial dating.

One member, who identified himself as Moshe to The Jerusalem Post newspaper, said: “Our goal is to be in contact with these girls and try to explain to them the dangers of what they’re getting themselves into. In the last 10 years, 60 girls from Pisgat Zeev have gone into [Palestinian] villages [in the West Bank]. And most of them aren’t heard from after that.”

He denied that violence or threats were used against Arab men.

Last year, the municipality of Kiryat Gat, a town of 50,000 Jews in southern Israel, launched a program in schools to warn Jewish girls of the dangers of dating local Bedouin men. The girls were shown a video titled Sleeping with the Enemy, which describes mixed couples as an “unnatural phenomenon.”

Haim Shalom, head of the municipality’s welfare department, is filmed saying: “The girls, in their innocence, go with the exploitative Arab.” A police representative also warns that the Bedouin men’s “goal is to take advantage of the girls. There is no element of love or an innocent friendly relationship here.”

In 2004, posters sprang up all over the northern town of Safed warning Jewish women that dating Arab men would lead to “beatings, hard drugs, prostitution and crime.”

Safed’s chief rabbi, Shmuel Eliyahu, told a local newspaper that the “seducing” of Jewish girls was “another form of war” by Arab men.

Both Kiryat Gat and Safed’s campaigns were supported by a religious organization called Yad L’achim, which runs an anti-assimilation team publicly dedicated to “saving” Jewish women.

According to its website, the organization receives more than 100 calls a month about Jewish women living with Arab men, both in Israel and the West Bank. It launches “military-like rescues [of the women] from hostile Arab villages” in coordination with the police and army.

“The Jewish soul is a precious, all-too-rare resource, and we are not prepared to give up on even a single one,” says the website.

Yad L’achim’s founder, Rabbi Shlomo Dov Lifschitz, is quoted on the site saying: “People must understand that Jewish-Arab marriages are part of the larger Israeli-Arab conflict. … They [Arab men] see it as their goal to marry them [Jewish women] and ensure that their children aren’t raised as Jews. This is their revenge against the Jewish people. They feel that if they can’t defeat us in war, they can wipe us out this way.”

The degree of general opposition in Israel to interracial marriage was suggested by a government-backed television ad campaign earlier this month that urged Israeli Jews to inform on relatives abroad who were in danger of marrying a non-Jew. The ads were hastily withdrawn by surprised Israeli officials after many US Jews took offense.

In her book Birthing the Nation, Rhoda Kanaaneh, a Middle East scholar at New York University, points out that “politicians frequently attack ‘peace’ or ‘dialogue’ programs for promoting miscegenation” in fear that it will lead to Jewish assimilation.

She also notes that Israel’s adoption and surrogacy laws require that adoptive parents be of the same ethnic group as the biological mother.

Jonathan Cook is a writer and journalist based in Nazareth, Israel. His latest books are Israel and the Clash of Civilisations: Iraq, Iran and the Plan to Remake the Middle East (Pluto Press) and Disappearing Palestine: Israel’s Experiments in Human Despair (Zed Books). His website is http://www.jkcook.net.

None of which has anything to do with the legality of interracial marriage.

Oh I see I&I said inter-religious and then interracial, like they where the same thing. Typo?

Anyway thats why I was so confused...carry on.

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01-11-2013, 06:07 PM
RE: The coming Russian Theocracy
(01-11-2013 05:30 PM)ridethespiral Wrote:  
(01-11-2013 03:32 PM)Chas Wrote:  I should allow you to make a fool of yourself, but before you do:

"Israeli law concerns itself with miscegenation based on Jewish ethnicity, not miscegenation based on race. Therefore, there are no restrictions on interracial marriages between Jews of different Jewish ethnic divisions, or between other co-religionists of different races, although social stigma may still exist."

Doesn't this support I&Is claim?

No, because 'ethnicity' is purely about religious heritage, not race. It has to do with whether one's mother was Jewish.

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01-11-2013, 06:12 PM
The coming Russian Theocracy
(01-11-2013 05:47 PM)ridethespiral Wrote:  
(01-11-2013 02:57 PM)I and I Wrote:  In Egypt, inter religious marriage is allowed by and recognized by the government. There is only one government in the Middle East and the world that doesn't recognize interracial marriage and it's not Egypt. Anymore wild guesses as to which nation this is?

(01-11-2013 05:39 PM)Chas Wrote:  None of which has anything to do with the legality of interracial marriage.

Oh I see I&I said inter-religious and then interracial, like they where the same thing. Typo?

Anyway thats why I was so confused...carry on.

I have been talking about interracial marriage in Israel, on how it's not recognized by the Israeli government, along with links showing the Israeli government policy along with racist groups in Israel to push an extreme segregation policy in all aspects of Israeli life.
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01-11-2013, 06:12 PM
RE: The coming Russian Theocracy
(01-11-2013 06:07 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(01-11-2013 05:30 PM)ridethespiral Wrote:  Doesn't this support I&Is claim?

No, because 'ethnicity' is purely about religious heritage, not race. It has to do with whether one's mother was Jewish.

Read my last post, I&Is typo had me confused...and in any event it's a nationality, an ethnicity, and religion all in one.

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01-11-2013, 06:24 PM
RE: The coming Russian Theocracy
(01-11-2013 06:12 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(01-11-2013 05:47 PM)ridethespiral Wrote:  Oh I see I&I said inter-religious and then interracial, like they where the same thing. Typo?

Anyway thats why I was so confused...carry on.

I have been talking about interracial marriage in Israel, on how it's not recognized by the Israeli government, along with links showing the Israeli government policy along with racist groups in Israel to push an extreme segregation policy in all aspects of Israeli life.

And you are wrong. There is no law against interracial marriage in Israel.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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01-11-2013, 06:50 PM
The coming Russian Theocracy
(01-11-2013 06:24 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(01-11-2013 06:12 PM)I and I Wrote:  I have been talking about interracial marriage in Israel, on how it's not recognized by the Israeli government, along with links showing the Israeli government policy along with racist groups in Israel to push an extreme segregation policy in all aspects of Israeli life.

And you are wrong. There is no law against interracial marriage in Israel.

Refusing to look at evidence doesn't mean it's not there. The Israeli government actively tries to keep a racially pure state in all it's aspects including marriage.

Nobody said there was a law "against" interracial marriage in Israel. Pay attention.....
The Israeli government does not recognize interracial marriage. Interracial couples have to be married outside of Israeli territory and are recognized in the country of marriage. The israeli government does not recognize this as a legal marriage under Israeli jurisdiction. The Israeli government doesn't ban it, it simply prohibits people if different races from marrying in Israel. The reason for this stance is partly due to the homophobic aspect of the Israeli government and partly due to the fact that they and many Israelis are racist nut jobs.
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01-11-2013, 07:07 PM
RE: The coming Russian Theocracy
(01-11-2013 06:50 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(01-11-2013 06:24 PM)Chas Wrote:  And you are wrong. There is no law against interracial marriage in Israel.

Refusing to look at evidence doesn't mean it's not there. The Israeli government actively tries to keep a racially pure state in all it's aspects including marriage.

Nobody said there was a law "against" interracial marriage in Israel. Pay attention.....
The Israeli government does not recognize interracial marriage. Interracial couples have to be married outside of Israeli territory and are recognized in the country of marriage. The israeli government does not recognize this as a legal marriage under Israeli jurisdiction. The Israeli government doesn't ban it, it simply prohibits people if different races from marrying in Israel. The reason for this stance is partly due to the homophobic aspect of the Israeli government and partly due to the fact that they and many Israelis are racist nut jobs.

No, you are still wrong. The government does not prohibit people of different races from marrying in Israel.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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01-11-2013, 07:43 PM
The coming Russian Theocracy
(01-11-2013 07:07 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(01-11-2013 06:50 PM)I and I Wrote:  Refusing to look at evidence doesn't mean it's not there. The Israeli government actively tries to keep a racially pure state in all it's aspects including marriage.

Nobody said there was a law "against" interracial marriage in Israel. Pay attention.....
The Israeli government does not recognize interracial marriage. Interracial couples have to be married outside of Israeli territory and are recognized in the country of marriage. The israeli government does not recognize this as a legal marriage under Israeli jurisdiction. The Israeli government doesn't ban it, it simply prohibits people if different races from marrying in Israel. The reason for this stance is partly due to the homophobic aspect of the Israeli government and partly due to the fact that they and many Israelis are racist nut jobs.

No, you are still wrong. The government does not prohibit people of different races from marrying in Israel.

Cool, as I said before, nobody claimed otherwise.
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01-11-2013, 07:58 PM
RE: The coming Russian Theocracy
(01-11-2013 07:43 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(01-11-2013 07:07 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, you are still wrong. The government does not prohibit people of different races from marrying in Israel.

Cool, as I said before, nobody claimed otherwise.

Nobody except you.
(01-11-2013 06:50 PM)I and I Wrote:  The Israeli government does not recognize interracial marriage. Interracial couples have to be married outside of Israeli territory and are recognized in the country of marriage. The israeli government does not recognize this as a legal marriage under Israeli jurisdiction. The Israeli government doesn't ban it, it simply prohibits people if different races from marrying in Israel. The reason for this stance is partly due to the homophobic aspect of the Israeli government and partly due to the fact that they and many Israelis are racist nut jobs.

You have the facts wrong.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-11-2013, 12:22 AM
RE: The coming Russian Theocracy
(01-11-2013 12:55 PM)I and I Wrote:  When one criticizes one nation for its policies yet doesn't criticize other countries for similar or worse policies then that person is not interested in debating the issue, that person is only interested in smearing certain countries.

Yes, that is completely correct. Good to know you are self-aware of this issue of yours. Drinking Beverage

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