The concept of Hell
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18-06-2012, 03:14 AM
RE: The concept of Hell
How atheists use the concept of hell huh?

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(Now now Atheists, put the BBQ sauce away just for a moment I have a point to make first)

Please explain to me how you can live with yourselves knowing that that is burning in eternal fire?

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18-06-2012, 08:50 AM
RE: The concept of Hell
(14-06-2012 10:17 PM)Diogenes of Mayberry Wrote:  I initially introduced myself and my book on this thread, where interested readers can see my summary of the virgin birth mythology.
Good read Diogenes - thanks for sharing.

I'm sure this will be caught, but on page 5: “Yeah, exactly; and just like you know hell is a real place, you sure as hell know that hell is in the Bible somewhere, you just don‟t [know] where, or who said it, or in what context, or why."

Not a big deal -- happens to me all too often Sad - just thought you'd want to know...

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18-06-2012, 08:52 AM
RE: The concept of Hell
(18-06-2012 03:14 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  How atheists use the concept of hell huh?

[Image: cute%2Bbaby.jpg]

(Now now Atheists, put the BBQ sauce away just for a moment I have a point to make first)

Please explain to me how you can live with yourselves knowing that that is burning in eternal fire?
Because it was born sinful? That cute little smile and cherub cheeks are a disguise for the evil contained in that little body - and it makes me hungry... Wink

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18-06-2012, 10:08 AM
RE: The concept of Hell
(18-06-2012 03:14 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  How atheists use the concept of hell huh?

[Image: cute%2Bbaby.jpg]

(Now now Atheists, put the BBQ sauce away just for a moment I have a point to make first)

Please explain to me how you can live with yourselves knowing that that is burning in eternal fire?
Don't worry about it, it's all part of God's perfect plan. Rolleyes

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18-06-2012, 11:31 AM
RE: The concept of Hell
(18-06-2012 08:50 AM)Seasbury Wrote:  
(14-06-2012 10:17 PM)Diogenes of Mayberry Wrote:  I initially introduced myself and my book on this thread, where interested readers can see my summary of the virgin birth mythology.
Good read Diogenes - thanks for sharing.

I'm sure this will be caught, but on page 5: “Yeah, exactly; and just like you know hell is a real place, you sure as hell know that hell is in the Bible somewhere, you just don‟t [know] where, or who said it, or in what context, or why."

Not a big deal -- happens to me all too often Sad - just thought you'd want to know...


Thanks for that Seasbury! It drives me nutty that after having been through the manuscript a zillion times, I still read it too damn fast.

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18-06-2012, 12:42 PM
RE: The concept of Hell
OK so what I've got from this so far is:

-hell doen't exist

-the current idea of hell was taken form dante's inferno or from the german word for garbage.

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Babies do not burn in hell, even if tehy are not baptized they go to heaven.

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18-06-2012, 06:34 PM (This post was last modified: 18-06-2012 06:38 PM by Darkhouse.)
RE: The concept of Hell
The decision on who goes to Hell isn't based on how good or evil you were in life but on whether or not you joined the right religion and held the correct set of unproven metaphysical beliefs. No matter how evil you were, Christ will forgive you if you convert. No matter how good you were, Christ will condemn you if you don't convert. Therefore, Hell is not to punish wrongdoers but rather to torture wrong thinkers. This is not justice. This is a dictator tormenting non-loyal citizens.

However you choose to look at it, Hell is a ridiculous notion concocted up by Bronze age goat herders and perfected by diabolical christians during the Dark Ages.
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18-06-2012, 06:52 PM
RE: The concept of Hell
(18-06-2012 12:42 PM)Xinoftruden Wrote:  OK so what I've got from this so far is:

-hell doen't exist

-the current idea of hell was taken form dante's inferno or from the german word for garbage.

____

Babies do not burn in hell, even if tehy are not baptized they go to heaven.
Well... First of all, you are asking the wrong people the question. When you asks whether or not Hell exists, be prepared for a big fat no. We are atheists.Of course don't believe in a Hell.

As for whether or not Religion teaches that there is, that is a different story.

It is a known FACT that the Catholic Church, and most ( if not all) sects of Chrisitainity do indeed preach the Dogma of Hell.

Does it mattermif Jesus meant one thing? Christianity has, more than once, interpreted things there own way (Sometimes on purpose.)

Two churches are NOT, and I say this, NOT contingient as to the truth claim here. Catholicism teaches that Hell is a real place.

Xino, Where did you pull that baby one from. As far as my knowledge about the faith is concerned, Babies DO go Hell, unless they receive that baptizim of the blood.

Just beause two of your churches say it's fake is not enough of a good reason alone to doubt it.

And yes, Dante did pioneer the vision of Hell mostmof us have today.

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18-06-2012, 07:25 PM
RE: The concept of Hell
The only way to square a perfect God with the words of the Bible and its related dogmas is to modify our interpretation of the Bible. Babies go to hell? Oh no! That's too evil. Let's just say they go to heaven from now on. Yes, heaven is mostly full of half-formed foetuses and stillborn babies. There are a few adults there too, but mostly dead children.

Some even go so far as to deny the word of God and say: That doesn't square with perfection, he must have been misinterpreted. Hell doesn't exist or ooh ooh ooh, I know - Everyone who dies actually gets to choose at any time to go to heaven. It's only stubborn people who stay in hell.

We can't square the concept of a perfect god with the god of the Bible because from a human perspective the god described in the Bible is not perfect. He's either outrageously bad in human terms, or the Bible contains significant errors that put into question its authority on any topic.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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18-06-2012, 07:29 PM (This post was last modified: 18-06-2012 07:43 PM by Diogenes of Mayberry.)
RE: The concept of Hell
Xino, you have conflated a few points. Allow me to clarify and summarize.

In early Judaism, Jews did not believe in an afterlife, one just blinked out of existence. Heaven was for God and God alone. Later as their theology evolved in the post-exile era after exposure to Zoroastrian dualism, the departed were thought to go to Sheol, the Jewish version of a shadowy netherworld. Then, around 165 BCE, during the Seleucid repression that sparked the Maccabbean revolt, someone decided to write the Book of Daniel as an existential response to their imminent annihilation. Jewish theology underwent a radical evolution, in that for the first time doctrines of an afterlife, resurrection, and other radically new beliefs sprang into existence. This was predicated on the belief that because the "messianic" age was constantly delayed, perhaps the Kingdom of God would come in the afterlife, not on Earth. So, if the good and righteous souls would go to be in heaven with God, where to put the evil-doers? Presto-chango, we'll leave them in Sheol while the good and just go to the Kingdom.

Gehenna, which was the burning garbage dump outside Jerusalem, was imagined as the portal to Sheol. Christians later picked up the concept of hell and it merged with the Greek Hades, as Christianity spread throughout the Mediterranean, and other regional concepts of cultural underworlds. Dante's Inferno immortalized these images, centuries later, in the European mind. But, the English word for this place was derived from the Germanic word for their ancient pagan underworld and didn't enter Western thinking until only a few hundred years ago. A rose by any other name? Hell, Hades, Sheol...all signify the same place, but they are all manifestations of overactive imaginations and a tool in the Church's doctrine of terror to scare and control gullible faithful.


Ato, in 2007 the Catholic Church disavowed the notion that hell is full of babies, when they issued their "hope " that unbaptized babies maybe, possibly, won't go to hell. This was the Vatican's attempt to undo Augustine's idiotic doctrine of Original Sin, which, when he was forced to defend this steaming pile of crap to other bishops, is where he had to state that unbaptized babies would have to go to hell. Then along came limbo from other theologians who thought it up as a set of mental gymnastics to try to soothe all the traumatized parents.

During the research for my book, I spoke with a Rabbi about the current Jewish beliefs in hell, and he told me that they no longer have these beliefs and that Satan had long ago returned to his status as "instigator" not a full-blown, evil, independent entity. In fact, these Jewish beliefs were already going the way of the dodo by the time the Christian Church started using them for their own manipulations, to our everlasting regret. This Rabbi also related to me a story he heard from a Catholic Bishop who said: "I am required by doctrine to believe in hell. However, I am not required to believe anyone is actually there."

For anyone interested, I would recommend reading The Birth of Satan by T.J. Wray and Greg Mobley. It's a short easy read and full of all the details I cited.

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