The concept of forgiveness
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11-10-2014, 11:23 AM
Heart The concept of forgiveness
Just wondering how you view it. Do you easily forgive those who wrong you? Do you require a contrite apology for offenses, before you forgive? Is full forgiveness of someone who is a repeat offender, at all possible? Finally, is forgiveness more about the person letting go who has been offended, than about the offender?

I tend to forgive 'too easily' me thinks, and it has kept me locked in toxic friendships and relationships. I've learned that forgiveness doesn't mean I need to 'keep' the people who have hurt me as friends/partners. But, I'm still a work in progress. Just curious as to your own views and if you have any experiences to share, good or bad, relating to forgiveness.

Be true to yourself. Heart
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11-10-2014, 11:33 AM
RE: The concept of forgiveness
Forgiving is one thing. Resentment can eat you up. If you can forgive and let the resentment go it's a lot better for you.

Allowing someone to stay in your life when you just have to keep forgiving over and over isn't a good thing. That's allowing yourself to be abused.

Forgive but don't forget. At least don't forget to the point that you open yourself up to more of the same.

Being a doormat means people will wipe their feet on you over and over again.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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11-10-2014, 11:35 AM (This post was last modified: 11-10-2014 11:43 AM by Dom.)
RE: The concept of forgiveness
The art is to let the offender go along with the offense, if the offense bothers you enough.

Forgiveness is for yourself - it just means letting go of thoughts of hatred and bitterness or whatever. You got better things to do with your time.

P.S. To be more clear, forgiveness does not mean you let the offender back in your life. It can actually mean the total opposite - YOU LET GO of all of it, person and baggage. Bye bye.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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11-10-2014, 11:43 AM
RE: The concept of forgiveness
I am willing to forgive people for some things. Especially if they are friends or people who have meaning in my life. However, I refuse to allow it to be an "over and over and over" thing because allowing toxic people in your life is not worth your time.

However, I don't tend to forget behaviors, because I think it's important to protect yourself for future references.

Official ordained minister of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Please pm me with prayer requests to his noodly goodness. Remember, he boiled for your sins and loves you. Carbo Diem! RAmen.
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11-10-2014, 11:44 AM
RE: The concept of forgiveness
When I think about people like my mother, who is apparently unable to ever forgive or forget about anything, I feel like forgiveness is good for the person doing the forgiving. For example, my mom has been having a fit recently about my dad's brother not giving her/me/my brother any of the inheritance from my dad's other brother's will, and I wish she would STFU about it already. My dad died before the brother, my dad was the executor of the will, and in the case of his death, another brother was in charge. End of story. Also, dude wasn't rich or anything. I've already forgotten the matter, and I don't even consider us the appropriate legal beneficiaries, but my mom lets things like that get to her and drive her nuts for years. She's still bitching about her sister getting money from an aunt that died in 1995. /rambling

As for myself, I have something like a "three strikes you're out" policy. Everybody fucks up here and there, but if you keep doing it and doing it badly, I will cut you out of my life forever. I have done that on several occasions. I just don't think dwelling on things is the way to go. I forgive them in the sense that I let it go and I stop feeling angry toward them (for my own sake), but not in the sense of making up with them and allowing them to shit on me again.

I mean, I had a best friend from 3rd grade up until the time I was 29 or so. She was always kind of an asshole, but in a passive aggressive way. I think as a kid, since I didn't make friends easily, I put up with a lot more shit just to avoid losing friends. So I stayed friends with her for a damned long time. She got cancer (and recovered) but it made her even nuttier and bitchier. She'd stop talking to me and write me emails ending with "fuck you" and calling me greedy, just because I have a lot of medical bills and I refused to do a lot of web design for her friends unless I was paid for my time. After enough fuck yous and her trying to get me fired from a freelancing job the same week that my dad died, I decided maybe I should just stop talking to her. Other friends of mine said this was "sad." I considered it a cause for celebration, I was finally free of her assholery. It was liberating. I decided that I would rather have no friends than be friends with assholes.

I guess you could say I stopped forgiving but I don't see it that way. Some people are simply not worth your time if they are assholes to you all the time and use you. So rather than kiss and make up, or hate them and dwell on the bad stuff forever, I just try to forget those people ever existed and move on with my life.
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11-10-2014, 11:56 AM
RE: The concept of forgiveness
(11-10-2014 11:33 AM)Anjele Wrote:  Forgiving is one thing. Resentment can eat you up. If you can forgive and let the resentment go it's a lot better for you.

Allowing someone to stay in your life when you just have to keep forgiving over and over isn't a good thing. That's allowing yourself to be abused.

Forgive but don't forget. At least don't forget to the point that you open yourself up to more of the same.

Being a doormat means people will wipe their feet on you over and over again.
You don't know how your words today have resonated. I read things on here, but your words here have really moved me, have helped like you don't know. I have felt stuck, but your words have unstuck me. Thank you, Anjele! Hug

(11-10-2014 11:35 AM)Dom Wrote:  P.S. To be more clear, forgiveness does not mean you let the offender back in your life. It can actually mean the total opposite - YOU LET GO of all of it, person and baggage. Bye bye.
This. Yes, why hadn't I ever thought of it this way. If I'm honest, my Pollyanna ways stem from years of being an indoctrinated Christian. In Christianity as we know, it's commonly taught to forgive over and over and over...'turning the other cheek,' and when someone hits that side (metaphorically?) ...to keep turning to the other side. I'm no longer Christian, and I need to let go of this guilt once and for all. So thank you. Heart

(11-10-2014 11:43 AM)Logisch Wrote:  However, I don't tend to forget behaviors, because I think it's important to protect yourself for future references.
And this. Heart

(11-10-2014 11:44 AM)amyb Wrote:  I guess you could say I stopped forgiving but I don't see it that way. Some people are simply not worth your time if they are assholes to you all the time and use you. So rather than kiss and make up, or hate them and dwell on the bad stuff forever, I just try to forget those people ever existed and move on with my life.
What an interesting story about your mom. Resentment is unhealthy, for sure. I pulled away the rest of what you posted, to highlight this...

Yes. I needed to read this today. You just don't know.


We don't know each other in offline life, but these posts have touched me today. I can't explain it. It's the one thing from my Christian days (other than missing prayer on occasion) that I still struggle over. Feeling guilty about letting go of users. Letting them use or mock me. I feel like a weight has been lifted. I discuss some of this with my good friends irl, but they know me, and their advice sometimes isn't so objective. Thank you all for posting this today. You just don't know how helpful it's been to read.

Hug

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11-10-2014, 11:57 AM
RE: The concept of forgiveness
I agree with pretty much everything said so far. You have to let go of anger and resentment for your own sanity. You have to let go of toxic individuals for your quality of life.

For people that provide value in my life it is easy to forgive the occasional screwup. People that habitually cause trouble are history. I've got better things to think about.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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11-10-2014, 12:01 PM
RE: The concept of forgiveness
(11-10-2014 11:57 AM)unfogged Wrote:  I agree with pretty much everything said so far. You have to let go of anger and resentment for your own sanity. You have to let go of toxic individuals for your quality of life.

For people that provide value in my life it is easy to forgive the occasional screwup. People that habitually cause trouble are history. I've got better things to think about.

Sometimes, I just need to know I'm not being unreasonable. There's still that piece of me that doesn't trust my own decisions. (residue from Christianity again) I agree with you--the occasional blunder, I have been guilty of as well. No one is perfect, relationships and friendships go through ups and downs. But, to habitually humiliate or offend me, or mock me...I feel free having read all this feedback today. I haven't been able to unstick myself. Blush

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11-10-2014, 12:17 PM (This post was last modified: 11-10-2014 12:22 PM by Logisch.)
RE: The concept of forgiveness
(11-10-2014 12:01 PM)Deidre32 Wrote:  
(11-10-2014 11:57 AM)unfogged Wrote:  I agree with pretty much everything said so far. You have to let go of anger and resentment for your own sanity. You have to let go of toxic individuals for your quality of life.

For people that provide value in my life it is easy to forgive the occasional screwup. People that habitually cause trouble are history. I've got better things to think about.

Sometimes, I just need to know I'm not being unreasonable. There's still that piece of me that doesn't trust my own decisions. (residue from Christianity again) I agree with you--the occasional blunder, I have been guilty of as well. No one is perfect, relationships and friendships go through ups and downs. But, to habitually humiliate or offend me, or mock me...I feel free having read all this feedback today. I haven't been able to unstick myself. Blush

It's totally OK to say no to people who cause you drama and problems. I learned this lesson the hard way about 5 or 6 years ago with someone who caused me not only a giant drama headache, but even attempted to pull me into a bunch of legal drama. I ended up drug into it due to total hearsay bullshit and it caused me issues reputation wise locally. I ended up hiring a lawyer for defamation and having to fire off some letters. It got incredibly ugly. I've never had to hire a lawyer for such things before, but I learned very quickly that people who incite drama are nothing I want anything to do with.

Thankfully that's gone and done and in the past and I never have to deal with it again. But still, I wish I could have avoided it altogether. It's likely that I could have, if I allowed myself to say "No, don't want anything to do with you." a lot sooner. Hard to forgive them for the drama of a mess, but I've allowed myself to just let it go over the years. However, I'll not forget it, because that is a behavior I will always warn myself to watch out for.

Official ordained minister of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Please pm me with prayer requests to his noodly goodness. Remember, he boiled for your sins and loves you. Carbo Diem! RAmen.
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11-10-2014, 12:31 PM
RE: The concept of forgiveness
(11-10-2014 12:01 PM)Deidre32 Wrote:  Sometimes, I just need to know I'm not being unreasonable.

When you know that you're going to have to deal with somebody and your first thought is "I hope this doesn't go as bad as I think it will" then it is probably time to cut your losses.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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