The continuing degeneration of "NEW ATHEISMS" idols
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09-08-2013, 01:39 AM
RE: The continuing degeneration of "NEW ATHEISMS" idols
(08-08-2013 03:10 PM)PoolBoyG Wrote:  1. What are your thoughts and feelings on everything presented?
2. Who do you see as worthy idols - someone to learn and emulate - when it comes to reasoned and empathetic thinking and lifestyles?

1. Atheists, like all humans, are fallible and make mistakes. This is why "idolizing" people is not wise. Pointing out that these atheists aren't perfect isn't newsworthy.

2. I like to "learn from and emulate" Michael Shermer, a very rational skeptic. I also like Ben Mankiewicz, a reporter for the Young Turks who has a liberal bias (like everyone on the show) but doesn't express it. These guys always see both sides of the argument and lay out all the facts before making their verdicts... and like myself, if they think the evidence weighs more heavily on one side, they'll join it, even at the risk of admitting that they were wrong.

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09-08-2013, 01:55 AM
RE: The continuing degeneration of "NEW ATHEISMS" idols
(08-08-2013 03:10 PM)PoolBoyG Wrote:  And there's Daniel Dennett which I have heard nothing whatsoever about. So I guess he's still clean, or smart enough to not publically make an ass of himself and take pride in it.
Dennett on religion:




Quote:2. Who do you see as someone to learn and emulate (from)...?

Noam Chomsky, Michael Albert, Howard Zinn, and Vandana Shiva are a darn good start.

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09-08-2013, 04:46 AM
RE: The continuing degeneration of "NEW ATHEISMS" idols
When it comes to atheism, I would like to emulate Matt Dillahunty, Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens & Scott Cilfton (aka Theoreticalbullshit on Youtube)

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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09-08-2013, 05:45 AM
RE: The continuing degeneration of "NEW ATHEISMS" idols
People who fail to recognize Islam as a major problem are ignorant of the cultural war raging in Europe.

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09-08-2013, 11:57 AM
RE: The continuing degeneration of "NEW ATHEISMS" idols
(09-08-2013 05:45 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  People who fail to recognize Islam as a major problem are ignorant of the cultural war raging in Europe.

It isn't about "failing to recognize Islam as a major problem". It was about Dawkins' assertion that Islam is holding back the thinking of scientists, to the point where Muslims aren't winning Nobel Prizes. Whether or not you agree with him, it has nothing to do with whether Islam "is a major problem" or about the "cultural war raging in Europe".

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09-08-2013, 12:42 PM
RE: The continuing degeneration of "NEW ATHEISMS" idols
(09-08-2013 11:57 AM)Starcrash Wrote:  It isn't about "failing to recognize Islam as a major problem". It was about Dawkins' assertion that Islam is holding back the thinking of scientists, to the point where Muslims aren't winning Nobel Prizes. Whether or not you agree with him, it has nothing to do with whether Islam "is a major problem" or about the "cultural war raging in Europe".

It is about failing to recognize Islam as a problem. The religion is a bronze age blight on social and intellectual progression. There is no logically debating against either point.

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09-08-2013, 01:45 PM (This post was last modified: 09-08-2013 02:37 PM by amyb.)
RE: The continuing degeneration of "NEW ATHEISMS" idols
(08-08-2013 03:51 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  I agree with both Harris and Dawkins, Islamophobia is a joke designed to shame white people for calling out muslims. Islam is a belief not a race therefore not racist to criticise.

^This, very much.

As for atheism's "idols," the thing is, atheism does not have official leaders, so visible atheists can do or say whatever the fuck they want, and people are free to agree or disagree.

Quote:Sam Harris, similar Islamophobe, raging against Liberals for some sort of cultural Marxism
If you are referring to stuff like this, he's not "raging" against liberals so much as raging against people who say you can't criticize any religion for fear of hurting people's feelings.

As for him being an "Islamophobe," as Revenant said, that's just the buzzword for "white person who criticizes Islam." You never see Salman Rushdie getting called an Islamophobe, yet he's said all kinds of stuff about the dangers of Islam (and rightly so, since they've had a fatwa out on him for decades). Why? Because he's Indian, so even if he says the exact same shit a white guy says about Islam, he's not called an "Islamophobe."

Regarding shit on Hitchens, I dont' have trouble respecting him for the good shit he did and said, and realizing that it's ok to disagree with some things he thought. For some reason, people think they can point out questionable shit that Hitchens or Dawkins once said, and all atheists will be offended. This is simply not true. You don't have to agree with their every word to agree with some of the stuff they've said. That's a carry-over from religion, I think, the idea that if you criticize the leaders you'll deeply hurt someone. Hitchens isn't my leader, I don't consider him infallible, so why would it bother me to know he was not perfect in every way? It's kind of like saying that just because certain playwrights and composers were Nazis means you can't possibly appreciate their music or writing.
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09-08-2013, 02:12 PM
RE: The continuing degeneration of "NEW ATHEISMS" idols
(09-08-2013 01:45 PM)amyb Wrote:  
(08-08-2013 03:51 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  I agree with both Harris and Dawkins, Islamophobia is a joke designed to shame white people for calling out muslims. Islam is a belief not a race therefore not racist to criticise.

^This, very much.

As for atheism's "idols," the thing is, atheism does not have official leaders, so visible atheists can do or say whatever the fuck they want, and people are free to agree or disagree.

Quote:Sam Harris, similar Islamophobe, raging against Liberals for some sort of cultural Marxism
If you are referring to stuff like this, he's not "raging" against liberals so much as raging against people who say you can't criticize any religion for fear of hurting people's feelings.

As for him being an "Islamophobe," as Revenant said, that's just the buzzword for "white person who criticizes Islam." You never see Salman Rushdie getting called an Islamophobe, yet he's said all kinds of stuff about the dangers of Islam (and rightly so, since they've had a fatwa out on him for decades). Why? Because he's Indian, so even if he says the exact same shit a white guy says about Islam, he's not called an "Islamophobe."

Regarding shit on Hitchens, I have trouble respecting him for the good shit he did and said, and realizing that it's ok to disagree with some things he thought. For some reason, people think they can point out questionable shit that Hitchens or Dawkins once said, and all atheists will be offended. This is simply not true. You don't have to agree with their every word to agree with some of the stuff they've said. That's a carry-over from religion, I think, the idea that if you criticize the leaders you'll deeply hurt someone. Hitchens isn't my leader, I don't consider him infallible, so why would it bother me to know he was not perfect in every way? It's kind of like saying that just because certain playwrights and composers were Nazis means you can't possibly appreciate their music or writing.

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But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

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09-08-2013, 06:20 PM
RE: The continuing degeneration of "NEW ATHEISMS" idols
I don't expect anyone to watch the full 50 min, but in the first 10 min PZ does make a point about the argument from authority.

And he's kinda funny.




Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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09-08-2013, 07:10 PM
RE: The continuing degeneration of "NEW ATHEISMS" idols
They are not idols, simply people with good ideas, good intentions, making bad choices.

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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