The cost of atheism
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27-08-2014, 10:00 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 09:56 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 09:47 AM)CiderThinker Wrote:  Both

If you site the teachings of the OT - which you have - then my point stands.

In another post I explained how this works. The Bible interprets itself. There are two epochs OT and NT divided by the fulfilment of the OT by the coming of Christ.

Christians in the NT for example do not sacrifice animals, and they do eat 'unclean' food. The reason is that Christ is the fulfilment, and the new law for Christians, referred to in theology as the law of Christ. It includes and excludes things from the OT based on what the NT teaches. For example, OT says do not steel, and the NT says do not steel, so it is an abiding law. hope that makes sense.

Yes - and it's cherry picking of the first order. I've actually come to the conclusion that possibly Christianity is the first step on the Jews' road to atheism...


"Name me a moral statement made or moral action performed that could not have been made or done, by a non-believer..." - Christopher Hitchens



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27-08-2014, 10:00 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
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27-08-2014, 10:00 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
So.

Just to be clear then.
You have no study or facts to demonstrate or support your opinion that atheism is costing something, or is the cause for humans changing religions, or even that religions are being changed, or even that people are giving up one religion for another.

You said you were not interested in bum fights.

Right.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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27-08-2014, 10:02 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 09:58 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 09:53 AM)phil.a Wrote:  Where did i say that I am "right" and other people are "wrong"? I don't care about right or wrong but what I do care about is human suffering.

A lack of sexual equality creates suffering for women and I have a desire that people don't suffer.



If you have children, and one of them happens to be gay, that gay child will suffer under your parenthood.

You are not to blame for your lack of understanding of this issue, but your child will suffer as a result of your ignorance, and I care about any suffering that any human might go through, including your children.

This has got nothing to do with a lack of respect for you, actually quite the reverse, I hope to save you from yourself.

Phil

Ask an Islamic woman if she is suffering and she will say no. Islamic women were on the streets of London calling British women whores for how they dress etc. Your argument doesn't hold. And society sometimes has to do a trade off of suffering, the good of the many outweighing the good of the few. Its actually an atheistic idea called Utilitarianism.

Are you sure they are Islamic and not Southern Baptist?
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27-08-2014, 10:02 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 10:00 AM)CiderThinker Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 09:56 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  In another post I explained how this works. The Bible interprets itself. There are two epochs OT and NT divided by the fulfilment of the OT by the coming of Christ.

Christians in the NT for example do not sacrifice animals, and they do eat 'unclean' food. The reason is that Christ is the fulfilment, and the new law for Christians, referred to in theology as the law of Christ. It includes and excludes things from the OT based on what the NT teaches. For example, OT says do not steel, and the NT says do not steel, so it is an abiding law. hope that makes sense.

Yes - and it's cherry picking of the first order. I've actually come to the conclusion that possibly Christianity is the first step on the Jews' road to atheism...

I'm not sure why you don't get this. I didn't make this up, it is how the Bible tells us to interpret it. No cherry picking whatsoever. If you pick up a book that says read the introduction and conclusion first, and then read the rest. Are you cherry picking if you do that?
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27-08-2014, 10:03 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 10:00 AM)CiderThinker Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 09:56 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  In another post I explained how this works. The Bible interprets itself. There are two epochs OT and NT divided by the fulfilment of the OT by the coming of Christ.

Christians in the NT for example do not sacrifice animals, and they do eat 'unclean' food. The reason is that Christ is the fulfilment, and the new law for Christians, referred to in theology as the law of Christ. It includes and excludes things from the OT based on what the NT teaches. For example, OT says do not steel, and the NT says do not steel, so it is an abiding law. hope that makes sense.

Yes - and it's cherry picking of the first order. I've actually come to the conclusion that possibly Christianity is the first step on the Jews' road to atheism...

That is funny. Early Christians were actually called atheist because they did not follow the roman pagan gods.
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27-08-2014, 10:04 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 09:58 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 09:53 AM)phil.a Wrote:  Where did i say that I am "right" and other people are "wrong"? I don't care about right or wrong but what I do care about is human suffering.

A lack of sexual equality creates suffering for women and I have a desire that people don't suffer.



If you have children, and one of them happens to be gay, that gay child will suffer under your parenthood.

You are not to blame for your lack of understanding of this issue, but your child will suffer as a result of your ignorance, and I care about any suffering that any human might go through, including your children.

This has got nothing to do with a lack of respect for you, actually quite the reverse, I hope to save you from yourself.

Phil

Ask an Islamic woman if she is suffering and she will say no. Islamic women were on the streets of London calling British women whores for how they dress etc. Your argument doesn't hold. And society sometimes has to do a trade off of suffering, the good of the many outweighing the good of the few. Its actually an atheistic idea called Utilitarianism.

Prove that an atheist came up with that idea, or holds to it. In fact a prominent Christian ex-college president in the US preaches it, (Dinesh D'Sousa). He says Christianity is good as it's useful, (and in fcat so did YOU, by saying that morality comes from religion, and THAT is useful). Not such a critical thinker, are you.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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27-08-2014, 10:04 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 10:02 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 10:00 AM)CiderThinker Wrote:  Yes - and it's cherry picking of the first order. I've actually come to the conclusion that possibly Christianity is the first step on the Jews' road to atheism...

I'm not sure why you don't get this. I didn't make this up, it is how the Bible tells us to interpret it. No cherry picking whatsoever. If you pick up a book that says read the introduction and conclusion first, and then read the rest. Are you cherry picking if you do that?

I'm not accusing you of cherrypicking as such - I say that if the Bible says which bits of the OT are to continue into the new then that is by definition cherrypicking.


"Name me a moral statement made or moral action performed that could not have been made or done, by a non-believer..." - Christopher Hitchens



My youtube musings: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfFoxbz...UVi1pf4B5g
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27-08-2014, 10:04 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 10:00 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  So.

Just to be clear then.
You have no study or facts to demonstrate or support your opinion that atheism is costing something, or is the cause for humans changing religions, or even that religions are being changed, or even that people are giving up one religion for another.

You said you were not interested in bum fights.

Right.

Bucky, am I having a bun fight anywhere? I am answering other people's questions as politely and honestly as I can. Would you rather I didn't? If I am not welcome then I won't hang around.
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27-08-2014, 10:07 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 09:59 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 09:41 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  Actually the church is very supportive of those who have abortions. You don't have to support the killing of the unborn in order to support those who suffer the tragedy of going through with such a thing.

So secondly your basis for saying everyone should be equal is that you think so. Well there are large parts of the world doesn't think so. That's kind of a problem for your atheism. I think your missing the elephant in the room.

On the one hand you want to destroy and cut down christianity that has offered objective morality. Objective here meaning outside of us. You are then left with corporate and social evolutionary subjective morality. But having removed objectivity you have no grounds to make and force other nations to agree with you, when they think differently. You have nothing to appeal to. You stand on quicksand.

Tell me plainly, why are you infallibly right about homosexuality and Russia and Islamic States completely wrong? Its rhetorical, as you have no answer.

You know, I like you. I hope attacks won't make you react like a cornered animal, you need a thick skin here.

People here are as different as night and day, we come from all walks of life, all age groups, all corners of the world, various cultures and ethnic backgrounds and sexual orientation and what have you. There is no common denominator at all, with the exception that none of us believe in any gods.

What we also have in common is a moral compass. Just go and read our support section and then tell me we have no moral compass. A moral compass is part of evolution, it's not needed to invent one, we all have it already unless something went wrong genetically with an individual. We have been living in groups since ever as far as I know. Lots of time to evolve into a being with a social consciousness. If you study the animal world, you will find the same in herd, flock and pack animals etc. Strict rules of conduct that serve to protect the group.

So, this is innate in us, as well as provided by laws. Those individuals who break the unwritten rules are taken care of through the written law.

Why would we need a third group of rules that says the exact same as the other two sets?

Bumping this because I don't think Christian noticed it there at the bottom of the page, and this thread is growing like wildfire.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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