The cost of atheism
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27-08-2014, 10:08 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 10:04 AM)CiderThinker Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 10:02 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  I'm not sure why you don't get this. I didn't make this up, it is how the Bible tells us to interpret it. No cherry picking whatsoever. If you pick up a book that says read the introduction and conclusion first, and then read the rest. Are you cherry picking if you do that?

I'm not accusing you of cherrypicking as such - I say that if the Bible says which bits of the OT are to continue into the new then that is by definition cherrypicking.

Ok, imagine this. You go away on a business trip and take a picture of your wife with you. You miss her greatly so you stare at it every day. When you get home you suit down with your wife, and you get the picture out and stare at it again. There is something wrong yeah?

The OT was pictures and preparation for Christ, when He comes then the pictures are not needed, and He superseded everything. He is the fulfilment. Its not cherry picking. The whole of the OT is about waiting for and preparing for the coming of Christ.
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27-08-2014, 10:08 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 10:04 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 10:00 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  So.

Just to be clear then.
You have no study or facts to demonstrate or support your opinion that atheism is costing something, or is the cause for humans changing religions, or even that religions are being changed, or even that people are giving up one religion for another.

You said you were not interested in bum fights.

Right.

Bucky, am I having a bun fight anywhere? I am answering other people's questions as politely and honestly as I can. Would you rather I didn't? If I am not welcome then I won't hang around.

What I want is FACTS to support your OP. Answer the question, and stop wasting our time. You are certainly welcome to stay and make a fool of yourself all day. If your next post contains no supporting FACTS, I have better things to do.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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27-08-2014, 10:11 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 10:08 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 10:04 AM)CiderThinker Wrote:  I'm not accusing you of cherrypicking as such - I say that if the Bible says which bits of the OT are to continue into the new then that is by definition cherrypicking.

Ok, imagine this. You go away on a business trip and take a picture of your wife with you. You miss her greatly so you stare at it every day. When you get home you suit down with your wife, and you get the picture out and stare at it again. There is something wrong yeah?

The OT was pictures and preparation for Christ, when He comes then the pictures are not needed, and He superseded everything. He is the fulfilment. Its not cherry picking. The whole of the OT is about waiting for and preparing for the coming of Christ.

Now take this same argument you just made here for your god and replace it with another god claim you do not buy and see if this argument still works for you.

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27-08-2014, 10:12 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 10:08 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 10:04 AM)CiderThinker Wrote:  I'm not accusing you of cherrypicking as such - I say that if the Bible says which bits of the OT are to continue into the new then that is by definition cherrypicking.

Ok, imagine this. You go away on a business trip and take a picture of your wife with you. You miss her greatly so you stare at it every day. When you get home you suit down with your wife, and you get the picture out and stare at it again. There is something wrong yeah?

The OT was pictures and preparation for Christ, when He comes then the pictures are not needed, and He superseded everything. He is the fulfilment. Its not cherry picking. The whole of the OT is about waiting for and preparing for the coming of Christ.
Is there any evidence outside of the NT (i.e independent evidence) that gives any credibility to the claim of his divinity?


"Name me a moral statement made or moral action performed that could not have been made or done, by a non-believer..." - Christopher Hitchens



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27-08-2014, 10:12 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 09:50 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 09:33 AM)pablo Wrote:  You're assuming that any of the bible is true. Toss the book, try thinking for yourself. It might surprise you.

Pablo, I thought this was a discussion about needing to cherry pick because the Bible contradicts itself. Are you changing it to something else? You want to discuss the idea that thinking for yourself about God, is better than reading the Bible?

Give me proof that we are not currently plugged into the matrix, as a test of your epistemology and then we can continue.

No, don't think about god at all you don't need it.
You made the matrix claim, the proof is on you. See how burden of proof works?
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27-08-2014, 10:13 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 10:04 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 09:58 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  Ask an Islamic woman if she is suffering and she will say no. Islamic women were on the streets of London calling British women whores for how they dress etc. Your argument doesn't hold. And society sometimes has to do a trade off of suffering, the good of the many outweighing the good of the few. Its actually an atheistic idea called Utilitarianism.

Prove that an atheist came up with that idea, or holds to it. In fact a prominent Christian ex-college president in the US preaches it, (Dinesh D'Sousa). He says Christianity is good as it's useful, (and in fcat so did YOU, by saying that morality comes from religion, and THAT is useful). Not such a critical thinker, are you.

Bucky

A chap called Jeremy Bentham created what we now know as utilitarianism and he was a staunch atheist. Google it. Its common knowledge. No idea what your own about in terms of critical thinking.
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27-08-2014, 10:15 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 09:58 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  Ask an Islamic woman if she is suffering and she will say no. Islamic women were on the streets of London calling British women whores for how they dress etc. Your argument doesn't hold.

Likewise, if you have a gay son, and you ask your gay son if he is gay, he will tell you he is not. He might even say homophobic things to prove it.

And then perhaps 5 years later, you'l be surprised when he commits suicide "for no reason".

Beaten wives go back to their husbands again and again and actually defend them in court.

People tend to argue in defence of their social conditioning, however problematic that conditioning is.

Quote:And society sometimes has to do a trade off of suffering, the good of the many outweighing the good of the few. Its actually an atheistic idea called Utilitarianism.

Wow, arguing for sexism! Now there's a position you don't often encounter in the developed world these days.

Having nailed me to a cross, seems to me you are now burning yourself at the stake?

Phil
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27-08-2014, 10:15 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 10:12 AM)pablo Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 09:50 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  Pablo, I thought this was a discussion about needing to cherry pick because the Bible contradicts itself. Are you changing it to something else? You want to discuss the idea that thinking for yourself about God, is better than reading the Bible?

Give me proof that we are not currently plugged into the matrix, as a test of your epistemology and then we can continue.

No, don't think about god at all you don't need it.
You made the matrix claim, the proof is on you. See how burden of proof works?

Taking a few leaps there my friend. I am not asking you to prove that there is no God. You made the claim that thinking for yourself is better than reading the Bible. I wanted to see if you are as good as you say by answering a simple question about how we know we exist. If you can't answer it then you are in no position to make judgements on other weightier matters.
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27-08-2014, 10:18 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 10:15 AM)phil.a Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 09:58 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  Ask an Islamic woman if she is suffering and she will say no. Islamic women were on the streets of London calling British women whores for how they dress etc. Your argument doesn't hold.

Likewise, if you have a gay son, and you ask your gay son if he is gay, he will tell you he is not. He might even say homophobic things to prove it.

And then perhaps 5 years later, you'l be surprised when he commits suicide "for no reason".

Beaten wives go back to their husbands again and again and actually defend them in court.

People tend to argue in defence of their social conditioning, however problematic that conditioning is.

Quote:And society sometimes has to do a trade off of suffering, the good of the many outweighing the good of the few. Its actually an atheistic idea called Utilitarianism.

Wow, arguing for sexism! Now there's a position you don't often encounter in the developed world these days.

Having nailed me to a cross, seems to me you are now burning yourself at the stake?

Phil

Phil, it seems that all you do is not answer anything just tell me that I have nailed my own coffin and burnt my own stake. Those are not good arguments. You may have noticed that I wasn't arguing for utilitarianism, i was continuing to attempt to show that atheism, like the king, has no clothes. You have no bases for your judgments of what is right and wrong.
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27-08-2014, 10:18 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 08:48 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  Secondly, on the issue of homosexuality, again why do you say that it constitutes moral advancement? It is obviously against nature, ...

To paraphrase Niels Bohr, "Einstein, quit telling nature what to do." Homosexuality in Nature.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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